Trail Boss in Rifle Ctgs.

[KCSO]

Ihave been trying Trail Boss in various rifle cartridges as I liked the idea of a light load with a more case filling powder. My first effort was with 165 Lee Bullets in the 303 british and the results were good, with groups around 1" at 50 yards. This was not any better than I was getting with Red Dot, but it did fill more of the case. My next shot was with 30-40 and 30-06 and here is where I got some real results. My 30-06 is a 7.63x63 (as marked) German full stock. The rifle is very light for caliber and has a tight bore so I use it mainly for medium velocity cast loads. I was given a box of 500 30 carbine bullets sized 309 and since they don't shoot well in any of my other rifles I thouogt I would give them a go in the '06. I dumped in 6.2 grains of T/B and capped them with the 130 RNGC and fired away... Low and behold I got a 1/2" group at 50 yards with iron sights. The best part is they group at the same sight setting as my 220 gr. hunting load. If I switch from pistol to rifle primers I get the same group 1 inch higher on the paper. Thes are running about 1400 fps at low pressure.

I wish I had some pressure figures for T/B as I would like to try and get a 220 bullet to 1900fps with it. That should make a good hunting load and just about fill the case. The only rilfe data I have found on T/B was 30-30 cast loads and none over 1500fps.

If anyone else is or has worked T/B I would like to hear about it.

[dk17hmr]

I use it with my 45-70 and 500gr Lee RNFP bullets, 16.8grs makes a compress load and it shoots clover leafs at 50 yards. Velocity is around 1200fps. I have read somewhere that IMR didnt recommend using TrailBoss in bottlenecked cartirdges.

My personal feelings of this powder, I love it in my 45-70, its a nice light recoiling load that will get the job done for everythign from big game to paper. I tried it in my Savage 340 30-30 with 172gr pointed gascheck bullets and it wasnt any better then I have gotten with other loads in the rifle, around 1" at 50 yards with a 3x scope, couldnt tell ya what the charge was because I dont write down the loads I dont like, or the loads that dont show better accuracy then my current loadings.

[w30wcf]

KCSO,

I have tried Trail Boss in several different cartridges over the past year or so.
It did really well in my .30-30 & .45 Colt leverguns, somewhat ok in the .22 Hornet and .32 Colt 1892 Marlin and, for whatever reason, not very good in the '73 .44- 40 (4"+ groups @ 50 yards) using the IMR recommended loading data. More experimenting to do.

What I liked about it in the .30-30 when replicating the "Short Range" loads of yesteryear, is that regardless the powder position in the cartridge, the 125 gr. cast bullets printed into the same group @ 50 yards. The same cannot be said for other powders I have tried in this application....231, 4756, Unique, etc. which will produce two distinct groups if the powder is positioned to the rear or if the shells are fed from the magazine.

6.0 / Trailboss with the 125 gr. cast bullet (shortened 311041) goes 1,160 f.p.s. and is great for plinking or small game hunting in the .30-30.

w30wcf

[Urny]

I have not been succussful at getting consistant charge weights when throwing Trail Boss powder from my JDS Quick Measure. Set for an average 3.5 grains for use with 158 grain round nose in .38 Special, charges run anywhere from 3.1 to 3.8 grains. I've taken to weighing each charge until I use up the last of this pound of TB. Does anyone else have this kind of variation using TB?

[KCSO]

Once again logic and cast bullets run head on into each other. I started working up from that excellent light load and the more powder the worse the groups. I thought that a fuller case would mean better grouping but it just isnt so. I went back to RX7 for my hunting loads as the groups were 1/2 that of the T/B groups and with better velocity. By the time I got to 10.5 grains of T/B in the 30-06 case groups at 100 yards were over 4". I haven't had problems measuring loads but I have noticed a tendency for the powder to stick in the drop tube, so I use my Lyman 55 with the tapper.

[9.3X62AL]

Once again logic and cast bullets run head on into each other.


You noticed that too, eh? Lots more art than science with these poured critters, for sure.

[w30wcf]

UMY,

I haven't had any problems dispensing consistant charge weights with my RCBS Uniflow powder measure. Sorry to hear that you are. When raising the handle for the next charge, perhaps 2 or 3 taps against the stop will even things out a bit (?).

KCSO, Deputy Al,

I have had the same experience. I worked up a nice load with Lyman's 311316 in the .30-30. As I recall 7.5 grs. of Trail Boss did pretty well on the target. I then decided to try 10 and 12 grs.(capacity) and the groups really opened up....like about 5"(!) @ 50 yards. Velocity with the 12 gr. charge was 1,700 f.p.s.

By comparison, 14 grs.of 4227 or 4759 will produce the same velocity...but with 1" groups.

Now if they were to develop Trail Boss II with a burning rate of, say, Blue Dot - 2400 I could run capacity loads in the .30-30 that would be = to the equivalent of a mid range load and a capacity load in the .44-40 that would = b.p. velocity.

w30wcf

[KCSO]

I went back last night and re read Water's, IN DEFENSE OF NON CASE FILLING LOADS. Now I don't feel so bad.

[mazo kid]

Am I missing something here? You are trying to get higher velocities out of Trail Boss powder? I thought this stuff was specifically designed for REDUCED load-type velocity, and the prevention of double charges in same. Why not use it as intended, rather than try to make it do something it wasn't intended to do? Just my thinking. If it works for you, then fine. However, it seems that when powder charges of TB are increased, accuracy heads south. Emery

[w30wcf]

Mazo Kid,

Yes, you are correct, that's what it was designed for.......but the "research scientist" in us asks, what if? Now we know.

w30wcf

[Urny]

Especially after your replies here, I'm thinking the Quick Measure may not be suitable for this powder. It has no handle, but a vertical sliding filler tube into which the case or actuator is inserted and pushed up. After the tube fills, I tap it twice with a pencil, lower the tube to discharge the powder, and tap twice more. Repeatability is abysmal with TB. I think I'll try it in the Lyman Acculine measure to see if my results are any better with it. Thanks.

[castalott]

Hello Sir!

I would love to see piks of your shortened 311041 ( Do you call it a 31140.5?) bullet and mold. In fact, I would like to know a lot more about this.....
Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread....Maybe start your own thread with this???
Thank You Very Much!

Dale

[dk17hmr]

To bring this back to the top for anyone considering Trail Boss for cast bullets. I fired 2 5 shot groups and a 3 shot group today with my Savage 340 bolt action 30-30, it wears a Weaver K3 scope. With 7gr of TB a 172gr gaschecked pointed (311431) bullet and a 193gr gaschecked pointed (308329) bullet. The groups were fired at 35 yards from a rest and sandbags. The 5 shot groups all were touching with at least 3 cutting in the same hole. The 3 shot group was the 172gr bullet with 9gr of TB were a lose clover leaf not quite all touching but very close.

I am going to play with it a little more in my 30-30 with pointed bullets to see if I can get groups smaller but with that 3k scope its gunna be hard. Should make a nice rabbit loads, FPS should be down around 800 with these loads.

[w30wcf]

castalott,

I would be happy to post a photo, but at the moment my scanner is on the fritz.

I call it the 311041-125 which is the same nomenclature that IDEAL used for the 308206-125 and 308241-125 ....the -125 (gr.) being shortened versions of the parent bullet.

Back in the early 1900's, bullets suggested for "Short Range" loads were those referenced above in the IDEAL manuals of that period. Actually, beginning in the mid 1890's, Winchester offered .30 W.C.F. "Short Range" factory cartridges loaded with 100 gr. lead bullets. The earliest U.M.C. .30-30 "Short Range" cartridges were loaded with 125 gr. bullets.

In keeping with the historic significance and design of the early "Short Range" bullets, I decided to shorten a 311041 mold, eliminating the gas check shank and the back driving band. I then had a mold that produced a plain based bullet with 3bands.

That was about 10 years or so ago and it has been a very accurate bullet in the 1,100- 1,200 f.p.s. range, the speed of the historic S.R. cartridges of yesteryear.

If you would like some samples, please PM your address.

Thank you for your interest,
w30wcf

[spurrit]

w30wcf,

Would you be interested in selling me 100 or so of those bullets?

[Jon K]

w30wcf,

Take a look at the 311008 3 bands, PB, & same nose designn as 311041 weighs 118 gr. And it shoots great in the 1200 fps range.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l101/Jon_K_2006/DSC_0001-7.jpg

Somehow this post went off course.

Jon