How fast??

[acemedic13]

How fast can you push a .311 GC'ed boolit? I am sure there are a lot of variables to this question, and I am getting the feeling not many straight answers.....BUT

I am wanting to shoot cast WW that have been water quenched and GC'ed out of my M1-A. I would like to figure out the best powder and primer combo as well as how fast these can be pushed with any degree of accuracy.

I have been shooting these same boolits out of my 30-30 and they are spot on with 15 gr of 4064 and a cci LR primer. Real tame and accurate. Not sure how it will work with the auto loader though.

[Ben]

there are a lot of variables

You're right, there are a lot.......... :

Bullet fit
Bullet hardness
Twist
Bullet style
lube
and the list goes on.

You should be able to shoot 1800 - 1900 fps with WW' alloy if your bullet fits properly.

[Kraschenbirn]

You didn't provide a boolit style/weight, but I'm assuming you're looking for a load that will cycle the action of your M1A. Just for reference points, 33.5 gr. IMR4895 with either the old reliable Lyman 311291 or the Lee 309-200-1R will reliably cycle the action of my Garand and come darn close to matching ball ammo accuracy. I also load that same Lee boolit over 26.5 gr. IMR4198 in .308s for my McGowan-barrelled M700 and get 2MOA, or better but a buddy has tried a few of these in his SOCOM M1A with only mediocre results...4"-5" 100M groups, frequent failure-to-feed malfunctions, and apparent leading after only 20 rounds. (On the other hand, he's not a caster and pretty much shoots the cheapest milsurp he can find so I suspect that a serious "de-coppering" of that particular M1A's bore might make a significant difference in accuracy and lead build-up.)

Bill

[RU shooter]

Theres a great wealth of info in the military rifle forum as Bruce B has done alot of extensive shooting with that rifle and cast.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=3558

[runfiverun]

joel
i have thought about the m-14 some.
the best thing i can come up with is powder selection.
you need something that will give @ 1900 fps, but will give enough gas volumn to operate the rifle.
it is probably gonna burn dirty at that speed, and is gonna need to fill the case pretty well.
maybe the new rl-17 would work, when i do try it something in that burn range [rl-17,rl-19] is where i'll start.
the primer will make a difference here too.
i know 28.5 grs of h-4895 and a filler will give you the proper velocity in the 308, but i don't know about the port pressure.
about 30 without, is the same.
going past that will lose you accuracy pretty quickly with a 150-170 gr boolit.

[waksupi]

Joel, I have went up to 2450 fps with good accuracy in a .308, and GC boolits.

[BruceB]

"you need something that will give @ 1900 fps, but will give enough gas volumn to operate the rifle."

Not so. I created FUNCTIONAL cast-bullet loads as slow as 1300 fps, and also at well over 2000 fps. The M1A is veryflexible.
l
"it is probably gonna burn dirty at that speed, and is gonna need to fill the case pretty well."

Not so. Most loads burned very nicely, and powder fouling NEVER caused any problems. I did encounter some difficulty with UNBURNED 4831 causing functioning trouble, but even then, hundreds of rounds were fired successfully.

Powder charges as low as 22 grains were used, which is less than 50% of capacity...no troubles.

FUNCTIONAL loads were obained with powders from 5744 on the fast side, all the way up to 4831 on the slow end

Why not just go and read the thread? I did all that testing precisely for inquiries like this one.

[acemedic13]

Thanks for all the replies. I am going to start some trials on this boolit this week. I will start developing and testing as well.

I will definatley check out that thread Bruce. I usually try to comb the search thread first before posting, but I got a bazillion things when I hit 308 and cast.... (Should have been a clear indicator that there was a lot of work already done here for me. ) Thanks again everybody for the help on this.

[runfiverun]

bruce.
i was hoping you'd post in here.
i read the thread some time ago but didn't think you had good ejection with some of the powders.
looks like i need to read it again.

[BruceB]

RFR, amigo;

You're absolutely correct.

Over the length of a project like that (and it's basically never-ending, with the variety of components available) we are guaranteed to encounter some combos that don't work on first trial. Mostly, it's a question of too-light starting loads, but it's better to start low and work up (where have I heard THAT before????)

Since I'm only interested in loads that function the rifle properly, some combinations seem very unlikely as candidates....but I was surely surprised at some of the recipes that DO work.

[runfiverun]

it is amazing the combo's that do work.
i was working my 223 with cast and almost revisited a load that was an utter failure with jaxketed.
I backed it down a couple of grains [2] with the cast boolit and it is the most accurate load the rifle has ever shot.
the only reason i tried it [the new load] was the hopper happened to throw that load when set up for the jacketed load my wifes armalite likes, which coincidentally is the same load i use in the 30-30.
odd, but i'm not complaining.

[azcruiser]

variables to know first how or what type of action or gun
what type of barrel and length
what type of rifling
what kind of accuracy are you looking for
FAST would think you can get as fast as you want but way faster than you need

[sqlbullet]

BruceB and BobS certainly steered me in the right for my M1 Garands. I started out with 4831, and have since worked up loads under a Lee 200 gr with Varget and RL-15. I have some WC-846 loads that I need to go try but that I think will work great as well.

I am also now paper patching some loads. Going to try that in my 300 Win Mag. I hope to get to 2850 fps with a 200 gr lead bullet, paper patched. If it works with good accuracy, then I will start looking for a 160-170 grain mold for the M1 and work up some loads that mirror Mil Spec at the muzzle.

[Larry Gibson]

You can push a .311 cast bullet as fast as the cartridge will allow whatever weight bullet it is to pushed. How fast you can push it with accuracy is another question entirely. "Accuracy" and it's quantification is also a"variable".

Larry Gibson

[acemedic13]

I get it guys... I know I was being vague, thats why the disclaimer in the first post. I just wanted to hear some success stories with the m1-a and cast. I have been reading Bruce's posts on his thread and I think I got a winner. I am using an old timey lyman .311 mould. I dont know anything else about it because it was just randomly floating around in the bottom of an old box in my dads stuff (It's pointy, has a GC and two loob grooves) It is serious medicine out of my 30-30. I will do some experiments with the m1-a after this arm is better. They are going to release this nerve and sew my tricep back in place........Until then I will just keep reading. Thanks for all the help and the time you all put in posts. Joel