7.62 Nagant options

[buck1]

7.62 Nagant 1895 .
I am thinking of getting this revolver. Is there any options other than the strange factory brass to load for this Russian gun/cal. Thanks guys!!.....Buck

[TCLouis]

Don't know if the information is here on this site (I seem to remember it was a thread here about a year ago), but one can load ammo using 32-20 brass and 30 carbine dies. All I can say just do a search for the actual procedure. No longer a gas seal revolver with that loading though.

[NVcurmudgeon]

buck, the Nagant revolver is enjoyable to shoot if the funky appeals to you as it does to me. I use the excellent Starline brass, now sadly discontinued. If you can get hold of honest to Czarist specification Nagant brass, the best dies are .30 Carbine. Lee dies are made for using .32/20 brass in the Nagant revolver, don't know about other brands. After a little getting used to the twenty mule team trigger pull, I can now keep nearly every shot in the eight ring at 25 yd. shooting offhand. I use the same Lee 100 gr. RN that works well in my CZ 52. Recoil is close to zero.

[Wayne Smith]

I am painstakingly making brass out of .223 brass. I first size as much as possible in a 30 Carbine sizer, down to the web. I made a jamb chuck (piece of wood on a faceplate with a hole in it!) for my wood lathe and am cutting down the web with that. I cut it down until I can press the whole thing into the 30 carbine die using my 1T arbor press. I have a special lube made for forming brass that I use. I then trim to length.

These will inevitably have a weak spot from the cutting - they do not size down uniformly all around. I load these with 2.5gr BE and a 98gr 32-20 Keith from one of the group buys. Haven't had one fail yet, but am only on the third loading. I won't be suprised when one does.

[BudRow]

I too swage down .223 brass as far as I can then lathe turn off the rest till it just sizes in the 30 carbine die. Barrel slugged: Bore .3025 Groove .314. I have been using Hornady .30 cal. 90 Gr. Half jacket #3005. Case wall must be a little thick because I find I have to size loaded cartridge down a little in order to chamber. I make these to function as "Gas Seal". I do have some modern factory emptys (boxer) that I haven't fooled with yet. Would like to try a Boolit that is closer to groove size.

[webfoot10]

I use win 32/20 brass, sized in the Lee 7.62 Nagant sizer loaded with 3 grs. Bullseye,
under the Hornady .32 hollow base wadcutters, No need to rework .223 or .30 carbine brass.
I shoot these in a Nagant Target revolver and give the guy's at the club the fit's when I can
shoot better groups then their S&W revolvers.

[Wayne Smith]

I use mine as a gas seal too. I've found that a 32-20 size die gives a very nice crimp that fits the forcing cone.

[MtGun44]

Anybody getting any notable accuracy with those things? They have got to be one of
the ugliest beasts out there, I always wondered if they shoot any better than they look.
Sounds like brass is a real headache, too.

As cheap as they are, I have managed to resist, so far!

Bill

[mooman76]

Some manage to get them to shoot about 1" at 25y which is good. I haven't gotten near that yet. If you do a search Bullshop wrote a thread on what he did to improve accuracy. Also you can buy a replacement cyl for them that shoot the 32 auto brass. I don't know how well it shoots though.

[crazy mark]

The 32 acp cylinder is a **** shoot on working properly. I got lucky and I have one that fits bot of mine. The guy I bought it from couldn't get it to work properly in his. I made a tool that forms the proper end on the 7.62 brass that duplicates the factory round. I bought plenty of brass when it was available and boxes of boxer primed ammo at $24 for 50 rounds to get brass also. So far I can easily get 2-2.5" at 25 yds.

[fatelk]

I like my Nagant revolvers, too. I use .32-20 brass, but have to turn the rims down a little in both diameter and thickness. It is a pain to make them but then they last about forever.

They are underpowered, but the accuracy of these little guns surprised me.

[buck1]

Thanks guys!!!

[JIMinPHX]

J&G has a bunch of those guns in stock for around $99 each. They sell the brass case gas-seal ammo for around $25/box. I don't know if it's Berdan or Boxer.

Supposedly there is a single action only version & a double action version of that revolver. The single action is supposed to be less common.

I was going to pick one up to fool around with, until I saw what the ammo looked like. It seemed like too much of a pain in the butt for little gain, so I scrapped the idea. If I was retired & looking for something to occupy my time, I might have gotten one, but that's not my situation.

[Wayne Smith]

I neglected to mention that I am also thinning down the rim with a file while the case is in the jamb chuck to the point where the headstamp is gone. The rims are a little to thick for my revolver.

[diehard]

Like a few folks mentioned I use the "Norm Johnson" method of turning .223 Rem brass into very usable ammo. It is a slow process, but my brass has endured a few loadings with various types of projectiles and I have been happy with the results. I have posted the original article by Johnson below (don't know if he invented the process, but he seems to get the credit around cyberland). I only had to make a few adaptations to make everything work for me. My only advice is to build a jig to use with your jeweler's saw to get all brass exactly the same length for creating the seal (or not...it isn't entirely necessary). Right now I use a 1.5" block of wood with a hole drilled through to accept the brass for sawing. As mentioned above, I find most rims need thinning as well with this method.

Heck...I'm almost talking myself into getting 32-20 brass and Nagant die!
http://yarchive.net/gun/revolver/nagant_revolver.html

[blackthorn]

Wayne---Why do you remove metal from the very base of the cartridge? Would it not be better to remove the metal from the front side of the rim? I'm just curious but the thought occurred to me that removal of brass from the headstamp area MIGHT result in a shallower primer pocket? Have a great day!

[diehard]

Blackthorn, I'm not Wayne, but you are right on the money! I found out the hard way. That's why now I run a file along the top of the base for a few turns (while its chucked in my drill) to thin the rims enough for them to seat in the cylinders.

I haven't had the ambition to perform the easy modification depicted in this YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-Vej1DUHSE) that solves that problem once and for all for both .223 and 32-20 brass. I may try it with one of my Nagants just for giggles. It would make the brass conversion process easier.

I disagree with the maker of the above You tube, in that if you are careful enough with your measurements while converting .223 you can get them long enough to get a decent seal--or maybe it's my imagination...I'm not the Nagantman.

[9.3X62AL]

Fiocchi has Boxer-primed ammo in 7.62 x 38R that reloads quite readily, and is the proper length to enable the gas-seal to be indulged.

My own example (1916 Tula) runs about 3" at 25 yards, and can keep most shots on a 4" dinger plate at 35 yards (Angeles Shooting Ranges). Either Lee 100 RN or the Lyman #313492 WC works ahead of 3.0 grains of WW-231. I use a T/C 32 S&W Long sizer die (minus decap assembly) to set a "contour crimp' to a point just ahead of the boolit's front shoulder inside the case. Starline brass is short enough that no interference results at the forcing cone. I need to try this method with Fiocchi brass to see what happens.

The thing to remember about these contraptions......the brass at time of firing "sets" the throat diameter for the boolit. How that measurement relates to groove diameter might play a role in your revolver's potential accuracy.

[Wayne Smith]

Wayne---Why do you remove metal from the very base of the cartridge? Would it not be better to remove the metal from the front side of the rim? I'm just curious but the thought occurred to me that removal of brass from the headstamp area MIGHT result in a shallower primer pocket? Have a great day!

Since I'm doing this in a jamb chuck on a wood lathe I don't have the precision to take brass off the inside surface due to the small amount of surface available. Tipping the file is way too easy. I do have a primer pocket uniformer, though.

[buck1]

I found a Nagant site.
http://thenagantman.com/click-page-2.html
lots of usefull info there. And also another guy on ebone has parts on auction right now (not me) . I got some spare springs.....Buck

[blackthorn]

Wayne--You might look around for a file with a smooth "safe" side to run against the case body with the cutting edge on the rim face. Have a great day.

[Wayne Smith]

I have thought about that, both a straight and a triangular. I have done very little metal work, most of my work is wood work. Thus I am short on specific metal work tools. Probabl ought to invest in some over the next year. I would still have the problem of tilting them, though.

Obviously, a small metal lathe would be best but I have neither the money or the space now.

[buck1]

I got my $120.00 Nagant hand select in from J&G today. Its not a bad little gun. In a coupple of hours I had disassambled it, cleaned it inside and out, lightened the trigger spring,smoothed the action, oiled it down and shaved 10 thousanths from the breech pice so 32-20 brass will fit without shaving each case. Lee sells dies for these and can make a* conventional* cartridge for it that fits.
You dont have to make that weird factory stuff.
My reloading gear for it is still on order but it should push a 100ish gr cast boolit about 900fps plus with starting load of 3.5 gr trailboss (from internet). Thats 32 H&R classish.
The trigger pull single action is still a little bit stiffer than I like as is doubble action(not as good as single action) but not that bad after thinning the leaf spring and some stoning.
32-20 brass is lubed and reformed straight in one step ,prime , load ,seat and crimp as with any other pistol round.
On youtube the man called " thenagantman " has videos that show every step of everything I am talking about.
For about $200.00ish I got the gun (hand select),dies with shell holder,lee size kit, and mold. I just need some brass and I am off and running!
.....buck

[wills]

https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=2612

[buck1]

$162.00 for a non custom set of steel dies is crazy. The guns do not cost that much. RCBS if your ever read this ,you should be ashamed . I was forced to buy the Lees for less than $30.00 . This is the kind of thing that will make me a FORMER RCBS buyer. ...Buck

[mtnman31]

The Lee dies work fine although, I do use a Lyman M-die to bell the case mouths.

If it wasn't for the affordability of the Lee dies, I'd probably never have bought some of the oddball calibers I enjoy such as 577 Snider, 41 Swiss, 43 Mauser, etc. Their pricing lets people shoot more. And you are right, for the price of some of the other dies you could have bought the pistol, the Lee dies, some brass and still have money left over for lunch.

[wills]

If I recall correctly the Lee dies are intended to be used to resize Starline .32-20, and the RCBS are intended for use on factory 7.62 Nagant brass. I think you can/could only get the Lee dies from Midway.

[buck1]

Grafts has them too.

[alecbh]

I got my Lee 7.62 Nagant dies from Grafs, but with what you guys have said, I'm worried that I won't be able to make gas-seal ammo with them. I'm waiting for a deal on a press to go through, so I haven't had a chance to use them yet, but I would hate to have dies that won't do what I need. Have any of you guys used the Lee dies with factory x38r brass?

[Old Ironsights]

... and shaved 10 thousanths from the breech pice so 32-20 brass will fit without shaving each case. ...

?Que?

Ezplain please. I have a 91/30 and dunno what you ate talking about... ???

[mooman76]

?Que?

Ezplain please. I have a 91/30 and dunno what you ate talking about... ???

Try going here section 5 simple modification. http://thenagantman.com/click-page-2.html

[Gee_Wizz01]

I got my Lee 7.62 Nagant dies from Grafs, but with what you guys have said, I'm worried that I won't be able to make gas-seal ammo with them. I'm waiting for a deal on a press to go through, so I haven't had a chance to use them yet, but I would hate to have dies that won't do what I need. Have any of you guys used the Lee dies with factory x38r brass?

I used the Lee dies with the Grafs 7.62 nagant brass. Its basically factory brass, but its a little short to make to the gas seal. The Lee dies made ammo that looks just like factory. You do have to put a 10-32 screw in the seater die to seat the bullets below the case mouth. I am firing a box of new PRVI factory ammo and will try the dies on the PRVI brass soon. The Lee dies work great with Starline 32-20 brass.

G

[JIMinPHX]

?Que?

Ezplain please. I have a 91/30 and dunno what you ate talking about... ???

I think that you have a bolt action rifle & Buck has a weird type of revolver that takes a special gas-seal cartridge. They both come from Russia, & both have the name Nagant associated with them, but that's where the similarities end.

[9.3X62AL]

?Que?

Ezplain please. I have a 91/30 and dunno what you ate talking about... ???

Nagant REVOLVER, OIS.

[Old Ironsights]

My bad.

[9.3X62AL]

Some load specs for the Nagant revolvers show 1000 FPS or thereabouts for a 108 grain wadcutter-like bullet. The little contraptions might well contain such pressures, but that 1890s grip shape sure wasn't meant for my big paws to hold securely. The 32 S&W Long ballistics are just fine with me, and might make life perilous for jackrabbits and small game to 50 yards.

Had I not already had the 30 Carbine and 32-20 WCF die sets on hand, I would not have bothered reloading for the little critter. The milsurp Berdan-primed ammo is scarce but reasonably-priced (and probably corrosive-primed) and the Fiocchi Boxer-primed stuff has been around for a long time. Scarce, but not real expensive. Good brass, too. After firing some Fiocchi ammo, I did a Tale Of The Tape comparison to the 30 Carbine and 32-20. It worked, so I snagged 100 pieces of Starline brass. THAT stuff was a stiff run into the 30 Carbine sizer die on its first trip, but succeeding sizer passes are normal for fired brass of that size into a steel sizer.

[alecbh]

I used the Lee dies with the Grafs 7.62 nagant brass. Its basically factory brass, but its a little short to make to the gas seal. The Lee dies made ammo that looks just like factory. You do have to put a 10-32 screw in the seater die to seat the bullets below the case mouth. I am firing a box of new PRVI factory ammo and will try the dies on the PRVI brass soon. The Lee dies work great with Starline 32-20 brass.

G

Thanks, I was afraid that I had bought those dies and they wouldn't do me any good. Please let me know how the Privi cases come out.

Also, would getting a set of .30 carbine dies be a better idea?

Thanks,

-Alec

[9.3X62AL]

Also, would getting a set of .30 carbine dies be a better idea?

I can't say, for sure. The 30 Carbine seater die chokes on a boolit over .311" in diameter, so I resorted to the 32-20 seater. I have the advantage of already owning 30 Carbine and 32-20 sets, so I could mix & match as needed. Those two sets in steel-die style might cost less than the custom die set listed above.

Of course, having die sets in a given caliber prompts gun purchases in those calibers. Prepare for cascade effect. Just sayin'......

[buck1]

Well I have played with it quite a bit.
Call me a fool , But.....

With the Lee dies loading is straight foward. I have got to the 1Kfps range and dime sized groups at 30' off hand, and -0- leading.
Its a nice small carry size, it has the power of the 32H&R, Shoots great,the trigger is hard but easy to fix in SA anyway, DA its still hard.
I concider this a serious hand gun and the buy of the year!

[jbunny]

one quick question, are these nagants for $99 made before 1898??
if they are that classifies them as antiques in canada and i could get one shiped up here.
TIA
jb

[alecbh]

I can't say, for sure. The 30 Carbine seater die chokes on a boolit over .311" in diameter, so I resorted to the 32-20 seater. I have the advantage of already owning 30 Carbine and 32-20 sets, so I could mix & match as needed. Those two sets in steel-die style might cost less than the custom die set listed above.

Of course, having die sets in a given caliber prompts gun purchases in those calibers. Prepare for cascade effect. Just sayin'......

And I already want an M1 Carbine... this could be bad.. lol


Well I have played with it quite a bit.
Call me a fool , But.....

With the Lee dies loading is straight foward. I have got to the 1Kfps range and dime sized groups at 30' off hand, and -0- leading.
Its a nice small carry size, it has the power of the 32H&R, Shoots great,the trigger is hard but easy to fix in SA anyway, DA its still hard.
I concider this a serious hand gun and the buy of the year!

Excellent, even with factory ammo cases???


one quick question, are these nagants for $99 made before 1898??
if they are that classifies them as antiques in canada and i could get one shiped up here.
TIA
jb

Not the ones for under $100, sorry. They're mostly 1940s+ manufacture. If you can find one of the EARLY years Nagants, they might be 1898 or earlier, but be prepared to pay handsomely for one......

[badbob454]

hang up the nagant on the wall and look at it , it is cool to look at .... now go buy a cz52 pistol and shoot it .... accurate , easy to reload , boolit molds avaliable and cheap cheap surplus !! he he or the makarov i have both and could never buy a reloaders nightmare like the nagant ... unless you are talking the m44 nice good boolit ... seriously it would be tooo much work for me to reload this ...but im a little lazy he he . good fortune in your endeavor.. badbobgerman

[Wayne Smith]

hang up the nagant on the wall and look at it , it is cool to look at .... now go buy a cz52 pistol and shoot it .... accurate , easy to reload , boolit molds avaliable and cheap cheap surplus !! he he or the makarov i have both and could never buy a reloaders nightmare like the nagant ... unless you are talking the m44 nice good boolit ... seriously it would be tooo much work for me to reload this ...but im a little lazy he he . good fortune in your endeavor.. badbobgerman


That's fine, Bob - I have both and detest chasing brass 20ft away from the firing line! The Mak isn't near so bad, but still only collect about 70% of what I shoot. I prefer revolvers.

[badbob454]

Yeah right mine shoots the brass at least 30 feet ... so i dont pick it up cz52 surplus , but my mak is better as you say i too prefer revolvers gp100 38/357, super blackhawk 44spec/44mag ,super redhawk 45colt/454 casull. now thats good shooting and swing open the cyl and drop it in the brass can...to reload again ... i collect more than i shoot ..i shoot at a department of fish and game range , and most persons dont pick up the brass , thus i do only if its boxer though you will get a sore back picking up so much brass , some guys come out with rakes and rake up everything and sort at home and resell it too but back to the mak revolver hard to reload and under powered for me anyway , happy shooting in any endevor

[Wayne Smith]

Actually, part of my problem is that I actually like modifying brass, playing with forming it, and reloading almost as much as I like shooting. Since the range is about 40min. away and costs money and I can do all of the above at home it just makes it that much more attractive.

[leadman]

I'm up to 4 grs of Unique with the Lee 95gr RN and the velocity is less than 800 fps. This is out of gas- seal brass. Accurracy is pretty good.
Primers are just starting to change from rounded shaped to flatter near the firing pin strike.
Probably could add a little more powder but am a little hesitant to do so.

What are you guys using for powder and what velocity are you getting?

I also bought some of the Privi ammo and fired it over the Chrony. Velocity was about 770 fps, about 2 1/2" at 10 yards. Out of 10 rounds fired, 3 of the necks split down the side about 3/16".

I have 2 pieces of Russian ammo a guy gave me. Both have a full wadcutter bullet wayyyy down in the case. The case is not crimp at the mouth like Fiochi and Privi, but has a long taper. I am going to try and duplicate this as I think it will be easier on the brass. I did anneal all my brass to try to prevent further neck splits.

If I was either brave or foolish I might try to anneal the rest of the Privi ammo before firing it, but alas I am a coward in such things!