Hopkins&Allen 45

[quilbilly]

I have an opportunity to buy an old but unfired Hopkins & Allen .45 Cal percussion rifle. It is a long barrel full stock style. It seems a little spendy but is a pretty thing and the inside of the barrel looks good. Does anyone know anything about them? I love deer hunting with 45 roundball and this one has a 1/48 twist. Any info would be appreciated before I take the plunge.

[rhbrink]

Are you asking about the "Minuteman" rifle made by Hopkins & Allen sometime back in the 60's and early 70's? I helped a friend complete one from a kit that he bought I remember it as very good shooter but thought that the one that he had was a Numrich barrel with a 1/56" twist. Take the plunge I don't think that you will be sorry. Can you post a picture?

[cajun shooter]

The H&A rifles of the 60's and 70's were very nice rifles. They even made one that was the under hammer firing and I still wish I had purchased one when I had the chance. The 1 in 48 twist is the same as what came in my T/C hawken. It is a middle of the road twist. A rifle with the 1 in 66 twist is made for RB shooting.

[quilbilly]

Thanks for your advice. I will have another chance to buy it in about a month. Your description of when the kits came out is about right from what the builder said of the age. The kit was bought at an estate sale still in a garbage bag unstarted and the guy who bought it finished it and did a fine job.
My decision at the moment is whether to to buy a new stock for my 45 T/C Seneca which exploded when it fell after I triped over a stump in the dark dragging a mule deer up a mountain. The barrel is still a tack driver at 100 yds with round ball but replacing the stock is expensive. The alternative is to sell the Seneca barrel (shedding tears by the bucket) and almost pay for the Hopkins&Allen.
That Seneca 45 was my favorite and accounted for over 15 deer in the last 25 years (most DRT) so I haven't yet stopped crying over that sickening sound of the popping stock. I do not wish that experience on anyone.

[bob208]

1-48 twist is close for a .45 we used 1-52 when making barrels.

1-66 is right for a .50

1-48 is the twist for a .40.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Get a new stock- that would be cheaper in the long run, and you won't keep kicking yourself for getting rid of a gun you just love. They appear on E-Bay occassionally, but since you have your old one, you could send it out to a stock maker and have it duplicated fairly cheap, compared to buying a whole new rifle. New stock would be worth it, and you could finish it yourself if you wanted to make it that much more special.

[quilbilly]

Getting a new stock made was my first thought since I have my own wood, several blanks of some of the most beautiful exhibition grade quilt and fiddleback maple to be found anywhere that have been gathering dust in my barn for many years. Asking among my business customers in the shooting sports business I found that none knew of any local stockmakers who could reproduce the stock and their estimate of cost at the non-local ones they knew of was discouraging.
One of my customers is a collector of T/C muzzleloaders and has two Seneca stocks but has made no secret that he would almost kill to get my 45 barrel given its reputation. I am sure he knows that if he sells one of those stocks to me for a reasonable price, his chance of getting the barrel is nil.
Having seen the asking price of Seneca 45's in good condition ($7-800+), when I put a real Seneca stock on it, the value is so much I would be almost scared to take it in the woods again. I am a shooter/hunter, not a collector.
Hence my dilemma with the Hopkins&Allen but I have a little checking yet to do to find a stockmaker. I may yet get lucky.

[Charlie Sometimes]

DO NOT sell it- you WILL always regret it.
Since you have the blanks, pick out your best, and plan to have it restocked.

Check with Macon Stock (http://macongunstocks.net/index/html)
They are in Missouri, (Warsaw area), and have employees with many years of experience, and what I think are reasonable prices. They will do any and all level of work that you want.

Another option (for me), is that there is a somewhat local guy within 75 miles of me that does stock duplcation (has a machine), and can do the whole thing even more cheaply, or so I have been told. I have yet to get his number and talk with him about what I need. I have seen some of his work, and it is good, so that could be a possibility. I need a Ruger #3 restocked, and I have a specific style design that I want incorporated into the new set.

Asking prices are just that- asking. Those are high too! Nobody ever gets those (unless you meet someone who is very rich and careless with their money), and the sellers always settle for less. Which is what you would be doing if you sell yours and buy something else.

It WILL be cheaper to have it restocked, provided you don't go overboard on options. But if you did, it will make it just that much more special later. Spending the same money on yours, rather than a new one will feel funny, but I think you will be better off mentally later for the expense.

[Charlie Sometimes]

You could also take some part of the old broken stock, and have knife handles made out of it for a patch or hunting knife to keep the old one alive and still in future hunts, too.

[pietro]

I have both a .45 Seneca and a H&A, albeit the H&A's a .36 cal.

Although YMMV, and I like the H&A good enough (it has the same size bbl as my Seneca, 13/16"x28"), I'd NEVER take one ILO a Seneca.

I'd restock that puppy.

.

[Hanshi]

I still have the old H&A .45 underhammer I bought back in the mid 60s. I also bought an H&A Minuteman flint .45. Both are very fine shooters and unfortunately I let the Minuteman go at some point and yes, I still kick myself.

[Greg in Malad]

Restock the seneca!
$700-$800 is way overpriced for a seneca, I bought an unfired 45 this spring for $500, and even though I felt it was too much I dont regret it.
I have seen several seneca stocks on e-bay sell for $250-$300, which may be less than having one duplicated and finished.

[10 ga]

Fix the old stock! EPOXY! I have done lots of repair with it and fixed several gun stocks. If you saved the old stock it is pretty easy to do and you can even make it look like a "period" repair. Gives them character. Best turkey call I have is a cedar box that got sat on and repaired with epoxy. Sounds terrible to people but the turkeys "love it to death". Just $.02 best 10 ga

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I agree with Greg, what some people ask, and some even get for a Seneca is crazy!

I bought a lightly used Seneca .36 (less than 120 shots, no rust!) about a month ago for $500 including shipping in a hardside case with a range rod, (and a bunch of fittings!) 375 RB, 200 conicals, 600 patches, two short starters, capper, extra nipple and a few other things . . . yes I could have bought a T/C Hawken for less . . . but I like my Seneca!

[quilbilly]

I will be taking all of your advice not to get rid of the Seneca barrel and fittings. I have not yet been able to contact my customer and T/C collector who has two of the stocks. I wish I could epoxy the parts of the old stock back together but when it hit the stump some pieces exploded off into the dark clearcut. There is still plenty left to duplicate it preferably with my own maple . Right now I have a couple leads for stock makers who can duplicate within a three hundred miles of home and hopefully one will be within my budget.
When I tested the barrel to make sure it was undamaged, I duct taped it to the broken stock securely. I will swear it shot even better (3 holes touching at 75 yards) with that duct tape. In the early 1800's, that kind of damage was fixed with rawhide for a permanent fix.

[pietro]

There ya go - rawhide 'er, and hunt it till Kingdom come ! :drinks:


BTW - Here's The H&A .36 and the .45 Seneca that I bought @ local funshops for $100 each just B 4 last Thanksgiving Day.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1056072/DSCN0386.JPG

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[gifford]

Piettro - that was a smokin' hot deal. Congrats. G

[Hanshi]

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt74/hanshi_photo/PICT0387.jpg
I can remember when I bought mine back in the 60s. For $70 bucks I got a brand new Heritage model .45, bag mold and leather carrying case, which I still have and use. I still have that wonderful rifle, too.