Still leading

[stainless1911]

The leading seems to be closer to the breach this time, the rest came out relatively easily, but I'm still trying to scrub out the rest. Im not sure what to try next.

[deltaenterprizes]

Is it 40 caliber? What powder? What alloy? what lube?

[stainless1911]

.40 WW and range scrap.

lube, 1lb bzwx, 1 lb paraphin 13oz petroleum jelly, 5 tbsp. lanolin, 2 tbsp STP oil,

sized at .402

bore slugged .4014

winchester 231 @ 5.0gr.

Winchester WSP primers

[MtGun44]

Try a known good lube like NRA formula 50/50. .40 is a hot carridge and possible marginal
lube (your lube mix is an unknown to me) could be the main issue. I'd try a tad larger
boolit if you can, too.


Seat a boolit and don't crimp, then pull it and see if the case is sizing down the boolit as you
seat it.

Bill

[runfiverun]

good advice.
your lube has two carriers a modified form of one of the carriers. and a sticky [lanolin]
not sure what the stp would do but make the lube softer,as there isn't enough to do anything else.
anyways i'd add something else like alox,and maybe some carnuba to firm it back up or some stearate. [sodiumwhich will harden, or lithium which should soften]
depending on how you are lubing.

[stainless1911]

Also, the leading is more in the grooves than on the lands.

What do you think of that 45 45 10 + beeswax stuff I have heard about? Is that mineral oil, or mineral spirits?

pan lubing

[thx997303]

Okay, so in the last thread we eliminated sizing issues.

I think it may just be time to try a known lube.

[stainless1911]

Maybe felix lube?

[thx997303]

It is a known, good lube.

Would be worth a try.

[stainless1911]

ok, will give it a shot, or 200

[runfiverun]

the 45 lube is alox/jpw/and mineral spirits.
felix lube is castor oil, mineral oil, and sodium stearate, b-wax and possibly lanolin or carnuba,
depending on your needs.
lanolin adds sticky and some flexibility to the lube.
carnuba will firm up the lube and make the bbl shine more.
you need to cook the mineral oil and castor oil at smoking temp constantly stirring for a half hour.
add the sodium stearate [off the heat] and stir till it stops foaming. this is the binding agent to keep the lube in suspension in the b-wax.
melt the b-wax add in the oil mix and the carnuba now if using it. add the lanolin around 100*
it's like 3 tbs of the oil to a pound of wax.

you can make a big batch and store for later.

[deltaenterprizes]

Boolit weight?

[excess650]

His current lube sounds like a modified Barry Darr schuetzen lube. Its generally used with soft bullets at relatively low pressures and velocities.

The 40 S&W generally works at much higher pressure than old time schuetzen loads, but the schuetzen loads are a bit higher in velocity since they're coming out of a longish rifle barrel. 5gr WW231 isn't even a maximum load with 200gr, so pressure and bullet hardness SHOULDN'T be problems.

The bullets should be hard enough if they're large enough in diameter. Water dropping the bullets will increase the hardness if they're currently air cooled.

Try some commercial lube to get a baseline. It might be that a .403" bullet is what is required. You could try finger lubing some of your bullets and shooting them "as cast diameter" provided that they will chamber.

[mdi]

Mebbe a store bought lube until the leading situation is ironed out? Carnuba Red? This article has helped me w/leading: http://www.leverguns.com/articles/leading.htm

[stainless1911]

180 grain air cooled. I'll try the water dropped next time, as I already have a batch loaded and ready to fire. Then a change of lube. If that doesn't work, I'll have to make the sizer die bigger again. I don't want to shoot them as cast, they are coming out of the lyman mold oval, not round.

I have been thinking about getting some HS-6, I have to buy powder now, should I try this change at this time, or try to work this out with the 231? HS-6 is a slower powder, which I have been told, is better for this round.

[runfiverun]

stainless one thing at a time.
and i admire your attitude about sticking it out and fixing it.
:drinks:

[geargnasher]

The load you're using should be right at 20K CUP, you're using air-cooled mystery metal with no added tin, and a low-velocity lube. Not to mention a fast powder with a midrange load in a magnum handgun cartridge, and you're asking why you have leading.

1) Get yourself some Carnauba Red or BAC, or Javalina 50/50, or make Felix lube. If you make Felix lube, FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS EXACTLY.
2) Add some tin, about 1.5% by weight, and WATER DROP. Most range scrap is very soft with a small amount of antimony an almost no tin, the lack of tin can give you leading problems. The stuff you're using isn't good for much more than 10-12,000 CUP air cooled, you're shooting play-doh.
3) You're shooting play-doh with a grenade, either back off to about 4.5 grains or get a slower powder like HS6 or Longshot if you want to go over 15,000CUP, and you'll still need a slightly harder alloy, at least 15 bHN.

Gear

[ph4570]

FWIW, my 10mm really likes felix lube and Blue Dot. Absolutely ZERO leading with air cooled WW sized 0.001 over slugged barrel using Lee 6 hole 401-175-TC.

[geargnasher]

Blue Dot and Felix lubeis good for the .40, too, but you have to run it near the ragged edge to get a clean burn and prevent unburned kernels from fouling the front of the chamber. I think the 10mm is a bit more forgiving due to the larger case capacity. The .40 S&W really seems to suffer (like 9mm) from needing a slow, high-pressure powder, but having a small-capacity case and a breech that unlocks before the slower powders have finished burning can cause fouling issues.

Gear

[Trifocals]

Try a larger diameter boolit, a harder alloy and a different lube. Personally, I try to stay away from lube ingredients that are derived from petroleum, ie: paraffin and vaseline. LOL

[deltaenterprizes]

+1 on Gearnasher's advise.

[stainless1911]

I'll be making felix lube tonight, I just got back with the ingredients. I'll be water dropping too. I have some 95/5 solder I can ass for tin, and Im almost out of 231, so I'll be picking up some HS-6 as suggested for a slower powder.

No' I'm not about to give up, although sometimes I get a little frustrated with it. Thanks for all the encouragement, I'll get this with all your help.