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C A Plater
10-21-2006, 10:51 PM
I know that 2fg is considered rifle powder and 3fg is usually described as pistol powder but does it really make much difference?

The local supplier had only 3f Goex available so I using it in my T/C New Englander with round ball. I am using modest charges of about 70 grains on the measure and accuracy seems pretty good so far. I'll be getting some Swiss or Graf next time and I want to get enough to make up for the Hazmat fee. So as not to waste too much money, would it be better to stick with the 3f or get the coarser 2f?

shooter575
10-21-2006, 11:08 PM
I was told eons ago that .50 was the cutoff for fff.I started playing around with fff Goex in my .58 muskets 20 years ago and it works just fine for me.Target loads @50 gr.I use ff in my .69 though The standard is a 7-10% reduction with fff over ff

NickSS
10-22-2006, 04:47 AM
I have been using FFFG Goex for years in my 50 cal rifle especially for Rendezvous (black powder shoots) I got tired of carrying two different powders for the rifle and pistol. I started using 3F in everything with perfect satisfaction. I mostly shoot round balls but have fired conicals for hunting in my New Englander and TC Hawken rifles in both 50 and 54 caliber. Except for needing around 10 gr less powder for a given velocity I have not seen much if any difference between 2F and 3 F in my rifles.

Willbird
10-22-2006, 10:20 AM
I too have used FFFg for about everything, even FFFFg in cap and ball revolvers, it gives more velocity :-)

Bill

waksupi
10-22-2006, 12:40 PM
Keep in mind, our 3f now, is much like the old 2f of 100+ years ago. I use 3f in everything, including the smoothbore. Speaking of which, I found this morning, a .600 rb at thirty yards will split a coyote end to end, if you hit them at the right angle. Also saw six deer, and a bear.

C A Plater
10-22-2006, 03:52 PM
Thanks for the info guys. That's kinda what I was figuring. 3fg is what I'll stick with so if I get around 10 pounds or so to last me a while and spread out the hazmat fee. It will still be cheaper than the local source by $3-5 a can depending on if I get Graf or Swiss.

rmb721
10-22-2006, 04:53 PM
FFFG will weigh more than FFG from the same volumn measure. My 100 grain spout puts out 96 grains of FFG and 105 grains of FFFG if I remember right. I use that load of FFFG for round balls and TC sabots with a 44 cal. 240 grain jacketed hollow point bullet. (Speer or Hornady XTP) I use the FFFG because I think it fires with less delay than FFG, which might all be in my head. The guns are TC Hawken and TC Renegade, both flint locks.

Rick Hodges
10-22-2006, 09:26 PM
I used FFF on my .50, and continued to use it in my .54's. The old Lyman black powder book used to recommend it for everything up to .54 and started using ff with the .58.

My experience with it in my .54's has been 90 gr. of fff gives the same velocity as 110-120 gr. of ff. It burns a heck of a lot cleaner also.

Rick

TCLouis
10-23-2006, 08:44 PM
I test loads in ML rifle just like smokless and try boolits, FFG, FFFG, and let the gun tell me what it likes.
My 54 caplock likes 535 RB and healthy dose of FFFG best.

catboat
10-31-2006, 10:57 PM
I shoot flinters in New England competition. I have a 50 cal Youngstown rifle (38 inch barrel), with 15/16" across the flats Green Mountain slow twist (round ball) barrel.

I shoot up to 80 grains FFFG with a 495 ball. My accuracy load is 70-75 grains FFFG (3F) Goex blackpowder. Above 80 grains, I shoot 2F (FFG).

3F (FFFG) is MUCH cleaner burning than 2F (FFG) in my rifle. I like less residue-less to clean in between shots.


4f (ffffg) for my pan. I have used 7f (yup, fffffffg) but that was just too powdery).

piwo
11-30-2006, 05:59 PM
Greetings,
New guy here weighing in here.

I use only fffg in my .54 rifle. I load my hand made rifle up pretty hot, and have no problem whatsoever. I also use the fffg in my double barrel percussion shotgun, using .690 patched ball. FFFG actually cleans up easier, and if you're firing a lot at the range or a "shoot", a patch thoroughly soaked with wonder-lube between shots, and you can shoot indefinitely without any loading issues at all. I use the fffg in my flintlock pan as well: never had an ingition in the pan issue so long as the flint "spared". In windy conditions, I think the heavier fffg is perferential to the finer ffffg.. Just an opine though....

I've chronographed my rifle at 1940 fps using .535, 224.7 gr roundball: and that "galena pill" is serious game medicine, I’ll tell you what! Eschew the pellets, eschew the substitutes, and work up a good load with FFFG: it'll do you fine!

just my two pennies...:-D

felix
11-30-2006, 06:16 PM
My kids use 3F for power, and 4F for priming in their 54 muzzle loader. 4F BECAUSE of the wind and humidity here. 3F is not reliable at all. ... felix

piwo
11-30-2006, 07:05 PM
3F is not reliable at all. ... felix
We'll agree to disagree on that one. Missouri (like Arkansas) is a moist climate, I've shot it in the rain, snow, and humid summer, and in Wyoming up Chief Joseph Highway at 9,000+ feet in two foot of snow... Never a failure to fire. I have had 4F fail to dispense from a dispenser because the slight moisture wouldn't allow the flour consistency to pass. Fella at Rocky Mountain Cartridge in Cody told me not to mess with the 4f in the pan years ago, and in my book, he was right. Heavier chunks of fffg would be harder for the wind to blow out, would it not?

I don't think there's a right way or wrong way, whatever works for you. Both take a spark to set off, so I think it's just preference.

Good luck, and good shooting.

floodgate
11-30-2006, 09:35 PM
piwo:

In Revolutionary War days, the drill was to tear open the paper cartridge, dribble the pan half-full with the regular musket powder (Fg, more or less), pour the rest down the barrel, crumple up the paper around the ball, and ram it home. I used Fg with the my wife's original India Pattern Brown Bess (the story behind that was posted a couple of days ago), and in that huge pan, the coarse powder lit off every time; I think the sparks just bounced around among and between the big grains until one "took". The fundamental rule here - as in all shooting-related endeavours - is: "WHAT WORKS - WORKS!"

floodgate

piwo
11-30-2006, 09:57 PM
I read somewhere once that some rifles in the 1700's were practically self priming: the touchholes were so big there was no reason to prime, just shake a little towards the touch hole before setting the ball. :-D :drinks:

waksupi
11-30-2006, 10:45 PM
Some of the boys did some experimenting many years ago. They found that you could hold a flintlock out of a vehicle window, at 70 mph, and the charge would ignite almost every time. Even upside down. It has to be quite a wind to be a problem with blowing away powder. We have found if the pan is lined up directly with a wind of about 30 mph, the powder could blow out, before the flint had a chance to ignite the pan.

piwo
11-30-2006, 11:01 PM
goodness knows I've been in some pretty strong winds in Wyoming: can't be any different in Montana! Only fired at game once, but never tried firing into the wind as you describe. Dust devils can really be nasty.......

Hey waksupi, from whence comes the name? It's not in my Lakota / English dictionary: which language is it??