Springfield Hawken 50 Cal.

[Slingshot]

Hello all,

I have fired Muzzle loading rifles years ago when I was a kid, my father was heavily into them. Me being a kid of course I wanted something that went BAM BAM BAM BAM! not POOF!

As I get older I am starting to lean toward black powder cartridge rifles and Muzzle loaders. I just picked up a Springfield Hawken 50 Cal. with a 1 - 66" twist. I know round balls will work fine in it but I would also like to fire Minnie, maxi or other types of projectiles from it. I am novice here so forgive the ignorance on my part.

Will any of the Lee molds work ok in this rifle? Such as the REAL boolits? or is the twist to slow for these type of projectiles? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Also, what would be a good starting load? I am using GOEX 2 F BP. I have a box of Hornady .490 round balls that I plan on using to get the feel of it before I start casting my own.

I would be interested in trying some other boolits out if anyone casts for it. I would be willing to pay for them or trade. I have plenty of center fire boolits available to trade in different calibers.

Thanks in advance,
Jeff / Slingshot :drinks:

[Josh Smith]

Hi Slingshot,

The load on the 58 caliber Minie balls was 60 grains 2Fg. Any more, and you risked blowing the skirt.

The twist you have will work best with round balls or the Minie ball. It will likely not work too well with modern black powder cast bullets. They are designed around a 1 to 48 twist.

Out to about 100 yards, the lead round ball has a greater terminal effect than most conicals.

I really think you would like the patched round ball better than the conical anyway. It cleans with soap and water, no scrubbing lead out.

Josh

[northmn]

They make a projectile called a Ball-ette or Pennysylvania hunter or some such thing taht is supposed to work in a 66 twist. Like Josh I think you may do as well with just roundball. You will see some interesting loads made up for 50 cals that are very impressive. Most show pictures of deer or other similar sized game taken with them. The thing is that dead is pretty much dead and the round ball does a pretty fair job out of a 50. The modern muzzleloaders hae pretty much standardized the 50 and try to magnimize it. With muzzle loaders if you really feel you need more power, you should get a larger bore. The 50 with RB is as good a deer rifle as you can get within 100 yards give or take. It is a very good target bore also.

DP

[HORNET]

Slingshot, Lee makes a mold for a 250 grain version of the REAL boolit that's intended for use in the slower twist (like your 66" twist) barrels. The 2 cav. mold P/N is 90394. The patched ropund ball is probably going to be hard to beat. That's what that twist was intended for. Start about 50 grains and work up with 3 shot groups in maybe 5 grain steps between groups with either projectile. Try asking in the Boolit Exchange section of the Swappin & Sellin forum for some samples to play with.

[swamp]

Slingshot,
I cast the Lee 250gr REAL boolit. If you would like to try some PM me.

swamp

[Slingshot]

Hello all,

Thank you for all of your information. I pretty much plan on using round balls for it but have a hankering to experiment with others. Swamp a PM incoming thank you for the offer.

Jeff / Slingshot

[Slingshot]

Howdy all,

Well I took the old girl out for a spin at the range on Saturday. 50 Yards about 33 degrees. This rifle is 1 in 66" twist.

Started with 50 Grs of Goex 2 F 3 shots with .490 round balls (forgot the weight) with patch and bore butter lube. Shot fantastic. all 3 about nine o'clock just outside of the 10 ring.

60 and 70 grains of Goex 2F had the same results. BTW bore butter is worthless IMHO did not help with the fouling and had to clean the barrel after every shot. Otherwise the ball and patch would not go down. I had a small amount of Emmeret's home made lube with lanolin, with me and it worked much better. Had 5 shot strings before having to clean.

T/C Maxi - Ball 370 Grs. 50 to 70 gr. loads 5 shot strings. Lubed with Emmeret's Home made lube with Lanolin. Surprisingly these shot accurately. I didn't think they would stabilize out of this barrel. But 50 yards is not a true test will have to try 100 yards next time.

Lee 250 and 320 Gr. REAL boolits - Well lets just say that the deer are safe in Illinois if I used these during ML season :coffee: Mostly fliers I had 1 or 2 actually hit the board. Not surprising with the twist on the barrel I had.

Thanks all for the samples of REAL boolits I used and the information given. I now have a ML bug and I am looking into my next traditional ML rifle. Bless you all for giving me another scratch to itch :evil::Fire::drinks:

Slingshot / Jeff :mrgreen:

[Maven]

"Started with 50 Grs of Goex 2 F 3 shots with .490 round balls (forgot the weight) with patch and bore butter lube. Shot fantastic. all 3 about nine o'clock just outside of the 10 ring."

Jeff, a pure Pb .490" RB should weigh 177gr. Yours may vary from that owing to actual mould and RB diameter and the purity of your Pb. Also, I'm puzzled by the problem you had with T/C Bore Butter and powder fouling, as I used it on my patches during a match on Feb. 6: 13 shots fired, no fouling loading, or accuracy problems at all. Although it works well enough, it is a bit pricey. Could it be that you didn't use enough Bore Butter? If you use it again, try putting your pre-cut patches or patch strips (~1 1/8" wide) in a plastic container (an old margarine tub is perfect), then add Bore Butter and melt it in the microwave (not too much power though). Swish the melted lube around until the patches/strips are completely saturated. Let them cool and then store in a plastic baggie. (If strips, cut them into square patches.) Btw, you can also do this with the Emmert's Lube, but be careful about overheating it.
Hope this helps!

[Slingshot]

Hey Maven.

Actually I am using the word Bore Butter as a generic term. I meant Patch Grease made by CVA. Is there a difference between the two? I did saturate the patches well and had plenty left over after sending the patch and ball down the barrel and had to wipe it off with a rag.

I do plan on doing the melting and saturating with the emmerets lube next time around. I also plan on trying the Round balls and T/C Maxi ball at 100 yards and see what happens.

My RB's drop from a lee mold at 175 Gr. I am using Stick on wheel weights with a little tin added for fill out. They check hardness at 6 with a Saeco tester.

Jeff / Slingshot :popcorn:

[Maven]

Jeff, I've never seen the CVA patch lube you mentioned, but it may be similar to T/C Bore Butter and its clones. "Bore Butter" is a yellow, oil of wintergreen scented, Crisco-like grease, which works quite well in keeping BP fouling in check, made by Ox-Yoke, Traditions, and T/C. I used the T/C version a couple of weeks ago, mostly to use it up, and because I thought the weather would be too cold for spit patches (my favorite, weather permitting). As for using the CVA or Emmert's lubes on the Maxi-Balls, they'll work fine, but make sure you wipe the bore after seating them and prior to capping the rifle. Swab the bore with a slightly damp patch after you fire the gun too, as Maxi-'s, unlike patched RB's, don't push the powder fouling away when you seat them. Lastly, if you have a 1/2" arch punch, you can cut cardstock (shirt cardboard, tablet backing) or 1/4" felt wads to seat atop the powder charge when using Maxi-Balls. They help seal the bore and protect the bullet's base from gas cutting/leakage and improve accuracy a bit. Btw, make sure you weigh all Maxi-'s (+- 1 gr.) and use only those with perfect bases for the best accuracy.

[northmn]

those that shoot without doing a lot of wiping use lubes like Lehigh Valley or Hoppes #9 plus whcih clean while they are loaded and shot. these are ideal for shooting off a bench at targets to see how they group. Bore Butter or Crisco work better for hunting loads where one shot may be taken. Also, a loose patch ball combo can contribute to fouling and a tighter combo will help alleviate it. Its a matter of preference as some like to thumb start the ball and some like me use a short starter. A tighter patch ball combo is generally more accurate. 3f is also popular in a 50 and I use 50 grains of 3f which will give the same snap as the 60-70 grains loads of 2f. 80 grains for deer.

DP

[Slingshot]

Another question. The rifle is stamped Springfield Hawken 50 Cal. Made in Spain. No other maker marks on it. The gentlemen I got it from said he bought it around 1976 and cannot remember where he got it from.

Any clue on the manufacturer?

Thanks,
Jeff / Slingshot

[northmn]

Jukar was a maker of ML's back then and there were a couple of others. The designation Springfield Hawken is kind of an interesting one as Springfields were generally military arms and Hawken was a maker of arms in St. Louis which was a stepping off place for Western expansion. The irony of the Hawken is that the Lyman Great Plains rifle looks the most like what some picture as the classic Hawken while the TC Hawkens and other copies of the the TC like yours are at best Hawkens made for the local market and not those used out West. To my knowledge Springfield had nothing to do with the Hawkens. The Hawken name seems to be a catchy one and TC really cashed in on the name with rifles that do not look like Hawkens and then others copied the TC and called them Hawkens to copy TC. I find this more amusing than anything and am not saying that they are not good rifles, as they are. An original Hawken would have a heavy breech with a tapered barrel and weigh in at 9-12 pounds. I would rather hunt with a TC or its copies than an original copy.
Also the Hawken was an expensive rifle and not as common in use as some think. There were other "trade" rifles like those made by Derringer, Henry and Leman that were more common, especially during the heyday of the fur trade. These rifles were about half the price of a Hawken. They were also very heavy rifles as compared to yours. The story of the Hawkens is interesting and they were and still are a fantastic muzzleloading rifle design. A lot of their design is based on the English sporting rifle which they kind of look like until placed side by side (the English rifle came first).
Enjoy your rifle and shoot the heck out of it. Patched round ball are the most authentic loads and will take out anything you want up to and including elk. One individual took out a moose by mixing WW in his cast for round ball.

DP