PDA

View Full Version : Belgian 43 caliber smooth bore?



Charlie Sometimes
12-20-2010, 06:02 PM
I picked up a black powder barrel at the gun show this weekend. :bigsmyl2:

Belgian black powder proof marks (and inspector marks) all over, and the bore marked as 11.0- This is a 1/3 octagon, 2/3 round 30 inches long. It has NEVER been on a stock or drilled for touch hole, tang is straight, and the breech plug/ tang matches (#'d same). Even has a rough barrel lug brazed in place. This is not a heavy barrel- kind of "delicate" and "stylish", IMHO. Not much bigger than a stardard 410 shotgun barrel, really.

Barrel is still in the white, and needs exterior polish and finishing.
Bore is smooth, no pits, was greased, but had dried up. I cleaned it out some (will need more polishing later)- I think it will be very smooth after a little work.

I think I have a nice walnut stock blank up in my shop that will be the right size for this project- just have to find an appropriatly sized lock, trigger set, etc. before I can "build". This could end up being a really nice heirloom project, if I get everything and have the time and money to work on it in the future.

My biggest reason for posting this is to ask the question -
Has anyone ever seen a firearm with such a barrel on it?

I'll take some pictures of it and post in a little while- should have done this already :oops:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/Charlie%20Sometimes/LtFwlrBrchDetail1.jpg
Breech plug unscrewed from the barrel

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/Charlie%20Sometimes/LtFwlrBrchDetail2.jpg
Breech plug screwed in- this is as far as it will go currently, and the way I bought it. Just needs cleaned out and possibly some "trimming". (LLH initials beside the 35 markings?)

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/Charlie%20Sometimes/LtFwlrBrchDetail3.jpg
Left side- proof mark and one of the few dings.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/Charlie%20Sometimes/LtFwlrBrchDetail4.jpg
Underside proof marks- you can barely see some other initials under the machine marks (LLH?)

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/Charlie%20Sometimes/LtFwlrBrchDetail5.jpg
Same thing here- proofs and inspectors marks, the initials (LLH- just to the right of the 35 mark), etc.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/Charlie%20Sometimes/LtFwlrBrchDetail6.jpg
This shows what looks like a crack in the barrel- I think it is a poor weld for the attachment of the extra breech metal. I will be able to tell later on when I pressurize the barrel with my air compressor.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/Charlie%20Sometimes/LtFwlrBrl.jpg
Octagon to round detail- notice machine marks.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/Charlie%20Sometimes/LtFwlrBrlTop.jpg
Full shot of barrel and the end of the bore.

waksupi
12-20-2010, 06:48 PM
Charlie, it sounds like a light fowler barrel.

firefly1957
12-21-2010, 12:38 AM
I have a 45 caliber Belgium smooth bore that belonged to my grandfather the stock is black the barrel has a plated black finish. (made in the 1960's)
When I was young I shot it a lot And it held together and shot well with both shot and ball but I would not shoot it again. The breech plug was course thread and barrel thinner than I would like now.

Charlie Sometimes
12-21-2010, 11:27 AM
Pictures to follow today- will put them in original post when I get them.
I left the barrel up in my shop last night, so I didn't get to take pics like I thought I would.

It is VERY light- I never thought a fowler would be so small.
This is essentially a blackpowder 410 shotgun.
Thinking on a half stock design, but where to put a ramrod?
Wouldn't look right with an under rib since it is so small, would it?

440 RB won't fit in it. An RB will have to be 415 or 420 to work with a patch.
Shot will be much easier- use leather skirting wads under and over shot charge.
Powder charge won't have to be much either, I'd think.
20 grains, maybe 25 tops- wait and see what initial proof testing will show.

mazo kid
12-21-2010, 12:35 PM
I believe I have a similar barrel; mine is stamped 10.8 and Belgian proofs, ~30-3/4" long. I think it was back in the 80s that Turner Kirkland of Dixie Gun Works got a couple of tons of original M/L barrels and parts from an old storage warehouse in Belgium. At that time he was offering them for 3@~$20, no choice of bore size. As time passed the price gradually increased and the stock dwindled. I got my barrel for ~$12 IIRC. I ground the nipple lump from the breech and made a matchlock lock, had the barrel inlet into a stock.The stock got ruined by water from a freak accident from a burst water pipe fitting flooding the house while we were away. Still intend to make another stock and finish it up. Bore size measures ~.381" Sorry, no photos of a fowler, but a lock might be found at Dixie Gun Works or Track of the Wolf.

XWrench3
12-21-2010, 05:26 PM
i havent seen a dixie gun works catalog in forever. i just went and googled them, and to my suprise, they have a web site. so, i am going to go surfing for a while. hang 10! LOL!

Charlie Sometimes
12-22-2010, 09:01 PM
Pictures FINALLY posted- had a couple of "honeydew" jobs pop up.........:rolleyes:

Somebody tell me more about the markings, or correct what I think I know.
I "know" it is blackpowder proofed (initial and final), the bore is 11.0 millimeters, and the inspector mark is the T*, and the 35 must be serial #, but what is the 2 LB* on the under side?

I have a current DGW catalog, and just yesterday got a current TOW catalog - WOW! What a GREAT catalog they have! "Visions of sugar plums dancing in my head......." [smilie=p:

Any suggestions on locks or other ideas for this project? :popcorn:

Charlie Sometimes
12-23-2010, 08:47 PM
I ran a 410 bore brush wrapped with 4/0 steel wool soaked with paint thinner to cut grease and any rust in the bore this afternoon, and then tried tapping a 440 and a 445 RB through the muzzle to slug bore. They didn't deform enough to get good measurements. I then used a 459 boolit and got a good idea of how tight it is now. Slug measures out at 435, and there are several tighter spots down to 432.
I am hoping that I can polish out a good bit of the tight spots later on and even out the bore. A 7/16 drill is 4375- might find rod that size and try to hone bore to that size. What say the fire?

Charlie Sometimes
12-26-2010, 11:51 PM
No more advice, or recomendations? I'm disappointed. :sad:

waksupi
12-27-2010, 12:46 AM
No more advice, or recomendations? I'm disappointed. :sad:

Send it to me, and have me build you a gun! [smilie=s:

Newtire
12-27-2010, 11:15 AM
No more advice, or recomendations? I'm disappointed. :sad:

Hi Charlie,

I have a little single barrel smoothbore in 28 gauge persuasion that has a barrel that looks just like that one.

Like someone already mentioned, Dixie did alot of selling of
Belgian stuff back in the '60s. The barrel on the one I have says "Jukar, Spain" like some of the CVA stuff I've seen.

Would be a nice little plinker it would seem and a fun project.

Charlie Sometimes
12-27-2010, 11:29 AM
Send it to me, and have me build you a gun! [smilie=s:

What? And ruin MY fun? Perish the thought! :grin:
I need the practice- haven't done it in YEARS.

But the possibilty exists................... :roll: :wink: