Sharp base on bullet, not BB

[saltydog452]

I'm trying to reducate myself a bit.

I haven't cast my own in guite a while. When I did, it was for my own use and the bullets were from H&G #s 78, 130, and later, 68. They were all plain base.

The accepted wisdom, pre-internet and when air-mail was still an option for snail mail, was that a sharp base was a good 'tell' that the weight of the individual filled cavities was consistent.

For true, my sharp base bullet were more consistent. As was I.

Now, commercial casters seem to offer only bevel base cast bullets for the 200 Grain H&G 68s. Meaning, no sharp base.

Would those bevel base cast bullets any less stable/accurate at wimpy mid-range velocity?

Thanks,

salty

[firefly1957]

Bevel base is built into the die if you are casting a flat base bullet and it is not "filled out" you have a defect and the bullets PROBABLY will not shoot as well.
As far as which is better flat base bullet or Bevel base , Boat tail, round ball that can of worms is now open for discussion. Bevel bases are easier to load if you do not bell the case neck to start the bullet as in a bottle neck cartridge case. On a side note the 22 Jacketed bullets I make from spent 22 rimfire cases have such a sharp flat edge they are hard to get started unless the case mouth is flared.:swagemine:

[Al_sway]

The bevel base stills need to be filled out properly when cast, and you can tell on close inspection whether or not that is the case. Poorly filled out BB, or rounded bases, are not the most accurate bullets, in my experience.

[Bret4207]

In theory the BB should be just as accurate as a FB. In the real world it hasn't worked out that way for me. But that's just me. I find it very difficult to tell when a BB isn't properly filled out and I think that's my issue.

[1Shirt]

Tend to agree with Bret at least in part. If BB's are well filled out and consistant to within x weight, AND, for handgun, they are shot at moderate vols (800-1000 fps) have found them to be very satisfactory and accurate.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[44man]

In theory the BB should be just as accurate as a FB. In the real world it hasn't worked out that way for me. But that's just me. I find it very difficult to tell when a BB isn't properly filled out and I think that's my issue.
This is what I have found. I have never been able to explain why the BB boolit never gave me the same accuracy as a FB.
My only thought is that the drive length is off for the length and weight of the boolit or too much weight is shifted forward.
Even in rifles I always found a flat base jacketed more accurate then a boat tail on the average. Yes a BT can be exceptional but I feel there must be a closer match between twist and bullet weight.
Years ago it was so easy to test rifle bullets from each maker because they would send test bullets, 5 for a quarter and that included shipping. Now you need to buy hundreds to see what works.

[stubert]

I would think bevel base can contribute to gas cutting since the base will not bump up to seal the barrell,

[243winxb]

The Lyman 200 BB is the most accurate i have tried for slow Bullseye target loads. A ring of lube is left on the bevel when sizing in Lyman 450. Extra work to wipe lube off, unless you get a custom die plug or what ever the thing in the middle of the sizing die is called. http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/th_CastBullets_20090207_005.jpg (http://s338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/?action=view&current=CastBullets_20090207_005.jpg)

[saltydog452]

I went through 10 pages of Google after using cast bullets as a search term, and there was no commercial caster who offered PB 68s.

Threre were PB Long Colt and bunches of BB 68 look-alikes, but no PB 45ACP #68s.

Anyone know of a source for Plain Base .45ACP 200 H&G?

Thanks,

salty

[243winxb]

Maybe here http://www.missouribullet.com/results.php?pageNum_rsCWResults=0&category=5&secondary=13 Missouri Bullet Company!
The owner ' MissouriBullet" does post here also. http://www.thehighroad.org/forumdisplay.php?f=15

[44man]

I would think bevel base can contribute to gas cutting since the base will not bump up to seal the barrell,
The correct size BB will seal. The BB does not contribute to gas cutting. Recovered boolits do not show cutting.
I do not believe in "bump up" for ANY boolit in ANY gun.

[45 2.1]

I do not believe in "bump up" for ANY boolit in ANY gun.


One would wonder what happens in your RB muzzle loader then. Does your shot patched ball have clothe impressions on the RB?

[Bret4207]

The correct size BB will seal. The BB does not contribute to gas cutting. Recovered boolits do not show cutting.
I do not believe in "bump up" for ANY boolit in ANY gun.

We agree for once.

[saltydog452]

Thanks for the link to Mo bullets, and especially the joe1944 photos.

The folks at Mo bullets offer the HG # 68 look alike only in BB.

I am sure that someone has the PB 68 H&G . Understandably, it is reasonable that the PB would command a premium. I'd imagine that the H&G 68 is the biscuits and butter of lots of commercial casters and that the bevel base presents fewer culls.

Still looking. Thanks,

salty

The bevel base would be easier to cast and seat in a progressive pistol press. I 'think' that a sharp base is an indicator that the nose and body are just as filled as the base.

No doubt, that is a preconceived bias and may not be worthy of merit. Especially since I'm talking about mid-range to hardball equivent loads at 50 yards.

sd

[Wayne Smith]

Send a PM to Bullshop - he might very well have one.

[Char-Gar]

Commercial casters who use automated casting machines use the BB design because they fall from the mold easier. Taken as a whole I much prefer a plain base bullet for the reasons mentioned.

[Harry O]

I have two Lee .375" x 250gr bevel base moulds for my 38-55. One was used as-is. One was modified to have a flat base (it is a little heavier, now). The flat base one is NOT harder to cast with. Neither is it harder to load, if the brass case is belled correctly. Accuracy was equal out to about 100 yards. Accuracy of the flat base was a little better at 200 yards, but not by much.

[44man]

One would wonder what happens in your RB muzzle loader then. Does your shot patched ball have clothe impressions on the RB?
Yes, I use a .535" ball and .022" patch. That engraves the cloth over .005" deep in the groove marks.
I use a .450" ball in the .45 flintlocks with a .012" patch. That also engraves the cloth at the grooves. Displacing lead at the lands makes it tighter in the grooves.
I even lap a Minie' mold so the boolit is a tight rap in fit like a Maxie Ball to engrave fully into the rifling.

[44man]

We agree for once.
No my friend, we agree thousands of times!

[Old Caster]

I use 068 Saeco (bevel base) and 069 (flat base). I have tested several times at 50 yards with Ransom rest between these two bullets. Other than shooting 50 at each target I don't know if I can be definitive about the differences. Every time the flat base has beaten the bevel in 10 shot groups but only by enough that I have a "can't take a chance not to use flat at 50 yard" attitude. I do use the bevel at 25 yards because of several reasons. They are much less likely to get messed up from handling(why commercial outfits like them) and they load easier. I also get less lube in the wrong places on the bevel through my star. Through a Lyman it is the opposite. I also have an older 4 cavity Lyman 452360 which is a bevel base and it is almost as good as the Saeco's but it has large pour holes and is necessary to really whack to open. It isn't fair to compare a 2 cavity to a four cavity for accuracy because the more the cavities the more the variance. I think that unless you are a serious Bullseye shooter the difference is negligible and even if you are serious the difference might only be confidence.

[243winxb]

Hensley & Gibbs Mould Chart Reference Page Large photo Links of the 68 at top of page http://hgmould.gunloads.com/casting/hgmoldchart.htm

[casterofboolits]

There are two H&G 68 Styles. The one shown in the large photos is the old style with the thinner front band. This was also offered as a BB and the bevel was .060 long. I cut the tops of an eight and four cavity moulds to drop a 185 grain boolit. I removed .045 which leaves .015 of bevel.

The #68 moulds offered by Ballisti-cast can be had as a PB or BB. My testing of PB vs BB has shown a slight gain in velocity for the PB boolits. Accuracy from a Ransom Rest was the same. YMMV

[243winxb]

:bigsmyl2:Speaking of bullet bases, i wonder how these shoot? :confused: http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/Remington147grain9x19bullet.jpg http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=1601269919