Is Pyrodex so bad?

[coopieclan]

Is Pyrodex so bad?
I thought all BP shooters used Black powder substitutes.
I am new to this. 777 and these others are not as good as the original "Black Powder"?

I should know before I buy more of this stuff.

[docone31]

I use Pyrodex. I like it.
I do not recquire extreme accuracy though. I am happy just with hitting what I aim at.
Others have sais BP ignites easier with marginal ignition systems. Especially Flintlocks.
I got Pyrodex as I heard it was cleaner than BP. Now I am not so sure BP is that bad.
I got a lot, but when it is gone, I am going to switch.

[DIRT Farmer]

I have tried most of the subs, most will work if you work at it. Be sure to clean and clean some more. I have tested enough powders and have decided to just shoot from now on. The games I shoot require black powder to acheive good results, so as long as I have ffg, fffg, and ffffg I am good to go.

[hickstick_10]

Its impossible (for me) to get good ignition on a flintlock with pyrodex. I need to use real black in the pan ad 5 grains under the main charge in the bore = Instant ignition, just as good as real black. For paper cartridges (rifles and revolvers) I find pyrodex does have more hang fires, not enough to care to much, but enough hang fires that I remember them. Straight down the bore in a caplock with a good hot cap, I can tell no difference in ignition.

The one thing Pyrodex has going for it is that its readily available. Otherwise, nothing really beats real black powder.

[lathesmith]

In my experience, Pyrodex is easier to find, and it does have less fouling than black. I use it mainly in 45 Colt loads, and it works great for this. As others have suggested, it is harder to ignite than black, and contrary to popular myth it is corrosive and requires quick clean-up to avoid rust and other problems. So, it just depends on what you want to use it for, and what you have available.

lathesmith

[piwo]

Pyrodex ain't "so bad"...... It doesn't work for doodley squat in a flintlock, but in a cap and ball rifle / shotgun, no problem what so ever. Yeah, some guys put a few grains of real BP down the barrel first, then Pyrodex or other substitute on top, but I think lifes too short for such complications. I get 100 FPS less velocity using Pyrodex as compared to it's real BP "equivalent", but even that's no reason not to use it. I have a Percussion BP shotgun and a Flintlock BP rifle. I keep things simple and use the one that works in both weapons and gives me more horse power per grain of powder. I've never seen a thing it does better then BP, but it's more readily available, so that's something. To turn the page slightly, I prefer to view Pyrodex as a "Marginal substitute powder". Flintlocks worked perfectly with the only powder available at the time of their creation. Now, we've developed substitutes that are more difficult to ignite and need a much hotter ignition source. Can't see how creating something that is more difficult to light as an improvement. But,
use it and if you are shooting well, don't change a darn thing. If you are using a percussion ignition system, you will probably be happy with it. Try both if you haven't, and use the one that has the most advantages for your situation.......

It's all good.......

[iron mule]

well if you had seen some of the guns that it has been used in that have came in my shop you would not need to ask
when you use it you need to clean soon then clean again and make sure you take the nipple out and clean again
then when you think it is clean clean again
i had a pard that used it in a 1860 replica he cleaned the gun good he thought put it up even oiled it but he forgot to clean it again and again could not remove the nipples due to rust build up when he did go to clean it to get ready for a match
mule

[Geraldo]

In addition to everything mentioned above, substitutes are more expensive than BP. I see online prices of $20/pound of Pyro, and locally up to $28-30/pound for subs. When I buy BP I order enough so that with the hazmat fee I'm paying $14-15/pound.

[Newtire]

I still see people posting that pyrodex doesn't require a cleanup right away and remember when it first came out reading something similar posted by one of the "drugstore gun writers" in a "B" grade gun magazine. After about ruining my barrel, I learned better.

No doubt, pyrodex is harder to light and stinks worse than BP even but it is the only thing available in alot of places due to the difficulty of storage in the gun stores.

[wiljen]

Pyrodex is also hygroscopic as the day is long as it is sugar based so leaving it sit to collect moisture is a very bad thing. I've used it a time or two, but always clear my rifle at the end of the day rather than just decapping it like I've heard of others doing.

[451whitworth]

i used Pyrodex exclusively for the first 10 years of my muzzleloading. i think it is imperative after cleaning the barrel using the bucket of warm soapy water method to flush it again in a bucket of clean water. commercial BP solvents also seem to have good track record with Pyrodex and i would recommend a quick range clean up before heading home for the final clean up. Pyrodex is harder to ignite and i would get hangfires if i left the rifle loaded for two or three days when hunting. i quickly learned to unload every night, clean, load fresh in the morning. even still, in cold weather i sometimes would get a just perceptible hangfire. after switching to real BP over 15 years ago i will never shoot subs again. BP is a joy to work with compared to Pyrodex. clean up is easier, i find it more accurate, and that instant ignition. i love being able to the load the rifle for a three day hunt and having absolute confidence it will go off right now.

[357maximum]

With real BP I clean my gun once and put it away with just a cursory check a few days later to make sure.

With pyrocr@p I clean my gun and put it away for 3 days in a row......pyrocr@p is HARDER to get surgically clean in my opinion.

I prefer the real deal and the real deal works better and is cheaper, and it always shoots smaller groups in my rifles.

[XWrench3]

i am pretty much forced into buying B.P. substiutes. i have a heck of a time finding it anywhere except on line, and even that is not the easiest thing. and with the extra haz mat fee and shipping, i would have to buy a lot of it to be reasonably priced. and i do not use that much of it. still, everytime i go into a gun store, i look for it. if i ever find it, i will buy several cans just so i have it. if memory serves me right, there is a limit on how many you can buy at one time. around here, the story i get is that by having real B.P. in their stores, the insurace rates go through the roof, because it is labeled by our wonderful government as an EXPLOSIVE! not a propellent. i think it is just because our govenment is afraid of us. and that is not such a bad thing. as for pyrodex, i have shot it in both of my in-line guns. it does ok, but i get better accuracy with triple 7. one of these days, i will try some "WHITE HOTS" from IMR. see if there is much of a differnce with that.

[405]

Is Pyrodex so bad?
I thought all BP shooters used Black powder substitutes.
I am new to this. 777 and these others are not as good as the original "Black Powder"?

I should know before I buy more of this stuff.

I guess I'll just pile on. As has been posted in this thread and in many others on this site- Pyro is harder to iginte, it is at least as corrosive as BP, it produces much harder fouling.... but it is easier to get.... sooo what's not to like about it?

[piwo]

If you have a Bass Pro Shop nearby, ASK for it. They do not keep it in the open, you need to ask for it. I don't know that EVERY Bass Pro has it, but the one in St. Charles MO has it if you ask, and they have 2F, 3F, and 4F in the safe.......

Real Black powder is an explosive vs a propellant. Throw a lighted match in a thimble full of smokless, and it goes WHOOOOOSH... do the same with BP and it goes BOOOOOOOOOOOOM. :shock:

Better yet, don't throw the lighted match on ANYTHING! [smilie=s:

[Alan]

Pyrodex is the love child of Janet Reno and Satan. Well, maybe not quite that bad. The only reason I would buy it is if holy black was literally banned from ownership. I buy Goex 25 lb at a time from Jack's Powder Keg. That has been enough so far for 1-2 years of shooting. I store it in a locked cinderblock barn in rural La. at my dad's house. I just bring back 4-5 lb's at a time when I go home to visit. Find someone to go in on a half order. for 1-2 to 1/3 the price of black or the subs even with the hazmat fee, it is so much cheaper in the long run.

Alan

[SamTexas49]

I thought all BP shooters used Black powder substitutes. "

I can almost recall when Pyro came out (almost, when it was new)[smilie=b:

But I wondered why you thaough all BP shooters used substitutes?

Ive always been a real BP user, I got some Pyro, even used it but never switched completely.:p

[DIRT Farmer]

A comment, check your homeowners insurance policy, a few will limit the amount you can have. They are OK with storing grill tanks and gas in the house but "GUN POWDER". I am not positive but less than 50 lbs for transporting in a vhicle with out a placard per DOT, different states allow different amounts for possion.

[wgr]

If you have a Bass Pro Shop nearby, ASK for it. They do not keep it in the open, you need to ask for it. I don't know that EVERY Bass Pro has it, but the one in St. Charles MO has it if you ask, and they have 2F, 3F, and 4F in the safe.......

Real Black powder is an explosive vs a propellant. Throw a lighted match in a thimble full of smokless, and it goes WHOOOOOSH... do the same with BP and it goes BOOOOOOOOOOOOM. :shock:

Better yet, don't throw the lighted match on ANYTHING! [smilie=s:

real black wont go boom out in the open it need to have some pressure on it. when i was in the army on a 105. we always burned up the powder we didnt use.

[piwo]

real black wont go boom out in the open it need to have some pressure on it. when i was in the army on a 105. we always burned up the powder we didnt use.
WEll, when my pan goes off, I guess it's a whoosh, but it's an aweful FAST whooosh.........

[mooman76]

I used Pyrodex for years because I couldn't get the real stuff. I never had a problem with it and I only cleaned my guns once after using. I still use it because I got some left over but I'm switching to the real stuff because I can get it now for the most part. I did try it with Bore butter because they claimed it would help prevent corrosion. I checked my gun every day for a week and it didn't start to corrode. A week was as fa as I would go because I was was afraid I would forget about it. As far as the lube went though I use it sometime but my accuracy dropped off a little when I use it, especially in my 32.

[camerl2009]

Pyrodex is the love child of Janet Reno and Satan. Well, maybe not quite that bad. The only reason I would buy it is if holy black was literally banned from ownership. I buy Goex 25 lb at a time from Jack's Powder Keg. That has been enough so far for 1-2 years of shooting. I store it in a locked cinderblock barn in rural La. at my dad's house. I just bring back 4-5 lb's at a time when I go home to visit. Find someone to go in on a half order. for 1-2 to 1/3 the price of black or the subs even with the hazmat fee, it is so much cheaper in the long run.

Alan

blackpowder is easy to make its even easyer over in the US with open supply
of saltpeter(potassium nitrate) and sulpher

lol dont ask how to make saltpeter did it just to see if i could wow
not doing it that way again

[wiljen]

I stand corrected. Maven pointed out that while Triple 7 and White hots are sugar based, pyrodex uses charcoal and Sodium benzoate as fuel. My mistake.

[shdwlkr]

I have used every thing that can be used in a muzzle loader and can say that clean up can be hard no matter what you use if you don't do it soon after using.
Prodex is a little harder to ignite but then again so is BP sometimes depending on the moisture level in the air.
What I have learned is all the subs and bp will fire in caplocks but not the same in flintlocks. I like bp better but realize that sometimes you are where there is none so you use what is available and learn how to use it.
When it comes time to clean I have used boiling water and dawn dish soap for years then I can remember and it has always cleaned my muzzle loaders good enough for me.YMMV

[coopieclan]

W0w...

That was a hot topic.

Thanks gentlemen for the good info.

I will see about trying some of the real stuff.

All I shoot is an 1858 (Pietta) Remington .45 and a .36 cal american arms derringer.

Both use percussion caps.

The Italian reproduction revolver shoots O.K. every time.

I have yet to get the little brass gun to fire consistently.

Shooting black powder and lead balls is so much cooler than shoving cartridges in my gun.
I feel like any fool can BANG Bang bang with the conversion cylinder.
Muzzle loading is the best end of the sport.
Coopieclan

[calaloo]

The Brown Truck brought 10 pounds of Swiss 1 1/2 yesterday. Life is good.

[451whitworth]

The Brown Truck brought 10 pounds of Swiss 1 1/2 yesterday. Life is good.
i picked up some Swiss 2Fg direct from the Grafs warehouse on Monday in Mexico, MO. love that Swiss.

[piwo]

Was up there a few weeks ago. Nice folks to be certain, and pretty much have what you need........

[jmh54738]

Several posts ago someone asked why a substitute would be invented that was more difficult to ignite. Being an old guy, I remember the introduction of Pyrodex. The whole idea of the invention was to meet the testing standards of a Class B Propellant, and not be labeled as a "Class A Explosive". This would make shipping and storage easier and improve availability. The second requirement was that it would have loading and pressure features similar to black powder. Apparently Pyrodex has accomplished these goals. The inventor lost his life in a manufacturing blast or fire. I, however, use only real BP. So many other substitutes have come and gone through the years that I have forgotten their names. I was once gifted a small plastic bag of, IIRC, Black Canyon powder; in a couple of months it turned into a gooey tar like semi-liquid. I have seen flaming powder pellets corkscrewing downrange at the club. I am dismayed by the whole craze of modern inline muzzle loaders and cringe at the $2 per shot for the special caps, jacketed bullet with sabot, and powder pellets all bubble packaged at the local store. I can shoot all day for pennies. If it is not a traditional hammer gun, I want nothing to do with it.

[451whitworth]

Piwo, you sent me a PM but i can't respond as it says you can't accept any moe messages until you clear space.

[piwo]

Piwo, you sent me a PM but i can't respond as it says you can't accept any moe messages until you clear space.
DOH... issue corrected!

[357maximum]

Several posts ago someone asked why a substitute would be invented that was more difficult to ignite. Being an old guy, I remember the introduction of Pyrodex. The whole idea of the invention was to meet the testing standards of a Class B Propellant, and not be labeled as a "Class A Explosive". This would make shipping and storage easier and improve availability. The second requirement was that it would have loading and pressure features similar to black powder. Apparently Pyrodex has accomplished these goals. The inventor lost his life in a manufacturing blast or fire. I, however, use only real BP. So many other substitutes have come and gone through the years that I have forgotten their names. I was once gifted a small plastic bag of, IIRC, Black Canyon powder; in a couple of months it turned into a gooey tar like semi-liquid. I have seen flaming powder pellets corkscrewing downrange at the club. I am dismayed by the whole craze of modern inline muzzle loaders and cringe at the $2 per shot for the special caps, jacketed bullet with sabot, and powder pellets all bubble packaged at the local store. I can shoot all day for pennies. If it is not a traditional hammer gun, I want nothing to do with it.



Q. Where did the Fed's get the idea to test/list BP as an explosive?


Q. On which golfcourse did this happen and who was there?

[jmh54738]

Dear 357 Max, Blackpowder is the origional explosive and has been used for blasting from the day that it was invented. By 1689 it was regularly used in England's tin mines. In the USA, blasting with blackpowder was used, beginning with the construction of the Newgate Prison in 1773. Do your own research, goggle Class A Explosive, or Class B, etc. In my state the transportation, storage, and use of explosive materials is controlled by the Department of Industry, Labor, and Human Relations, s.ILHR 7.01 Adm. Code (including black powder).. The US Dept of Transportation controls how the stuff moves in commerce. The plan with Pyrodex was to be listed as a "Flammable Solid", IIRC, rather than an explosive. This has to do with ingition temperature, etc. Research Pyrodex history. This is why Pyrodex is easier to find. About the golf course, I have no idea what you are talking about
John, state licensed blasting technician, retired.