NOOB questions galore!!!

[oscarflytyer]

I have wanted to get into casting for a long time, and have a mold (Mihec H&G 53) and a cpl of Lee sizer dies. Calibers I will cast for are 357/44 Spc/44 Mag/45 ACP handguns and a bunch of Milsurp rifles eventually. For the handguns, I expect to push heavy cast bullets to b/n 850-1150 fps. I intend to us gas checks on all rifle bullets. I am going to smelt/start with WWs and add tin. Also intend to smelt the WWs in a large cast iron dutch oven over a gas burner/coleman stove. Looking to pick up a Lee 20 lb furnace for casting.

I have some simple stupid NOOB questions. Any info would be appreciated. Thanx

1) Can I shoot the bullets unsized? With WW/tin alloy, I expect to be probably .001/002 over bore.

2) IF I don't size, will the Lee Alox work? Can I simply put the bullets on a tray and put the Alox on them? Will this provide adequate lube?

3) IF I need to size bullets, will the Lee sizers/Alox work on all types of bullets? Or just the Lee mold bullets with all the lube grooves in them? Or will I actually need to go with a Lyman sizer and hard lube, melted in the sizer?

4) IF I must size the bullets with the Lyman - am I giving up anything by buying a older used 45/450 sizer, vs a newer 4500 sizer? Is a lube heater worth the extra cost?

5) In handguns, for 850-1000 fps, I am not worried about bullet hardness with WW/tin alloy - expect them to drop at/near 15 BHN. When I push beyond 1000 fps, I expect/assume I need to have harder bullets. Assuming I don't cast Linotype (due to expense) what is the recommended method to increase the hardness? Water quench out of the mold? Oven heat treat? Should I quench treat for the lower velocites, and oven treat for 1000+ fps?

6) I would like to shoot some hvy 300 grn 44 Mag bullets. Do I bite the bullet and use Linotype? or gas check/heat treat? Thoughts/recommendations?

7) For rifle bullets in Milsurps, I intend to exclusively use gas checks. Same basic question. Can I use gas checks + heat treating - or do I need to bite the bullet and use Linotype? If Linotype, heat treat too? Best recommendations here?

8) IF I use gas check molds, can I also shoot them at lower velocities (handguns) w/o the gas checks w/o any problems? Honestly, I struggle to see the diff b/n the base of a gc bullet w/o gc, and the BB bullets so common - just the engineer in me!

9) Any recommendations for mold break in, use, warm-up, storage, diff b/n aluminum and steel molds, etc, would be greatly appreciated. What about brass molds?

10) What is the best material for fluxing? I used old candles for some of my preliminary smelting. Also see where sawdust/cedar shavings work very well.

[knifemaker]

I will answer some of your questions, but not all of them. Too darn many to start out.

I cast for the same calibers that you mentioned. Using WW lead should do fine in all of them for hardness. In fact for pistol loads in 44 and 45 where the velocity is kept under 1100 FPS, I use 50% WW and 50% pure lead with 1-2% extras tin added and have not had any leading in several 45ACP pistols and several 44 Spec. & 44 mag. pistols and a 38 Spec. where the loads are kept from 825-1100 FPS.

Sizing the cast boolit to the groove dia is more important then hardness. I like mine to be 1-2 thousands over the barrel groove dia. What you got to watch for is a gun with oversize groove dia that is larger then other guns you have in that same caliber. My 44 spec and 44 mag pistol have groove dia of .430 and boolits sized .432 give great accuracy and no leading. My Marlin 44 mag rifle has a groove dia of .431 and I size those bullets to .433 and no leading. My .44 cal mold is a custom and drops the keith 255 gr, boolits at .434 dia.

For high velocity 44 mag, i use straight wheel weight. Air cooled drop for the pistols, and water dropped or oven heat treated for the 44 mag rifle since i kick them up to 1500-1650 fps in the rifle. So far no leading.

If you want to keep the price down, I would tumble lube the boolits once, then run them though the Lee sizer dia of the right dia. then tumble lube again. Do a search on this forum for a good method on tumble lubing that is fast and works great for just about any pistol boolits and lower velocity rifle boolits.

I no longer tumble lube and use a lyman 45 lube-sizer and White's BAC 2000 lube and it works great for all caliber up to 1900 fps , with a gas check,that i load my 45/70 too. I also bought custom sizers that size my bullets 1-2 thousands over the gun's barrel grove dia. and leading has never been a problem for me.

95% of my molds are Alum. and i do preheat them on a Corning lab hot plate that i bought off of e bay. most of the time will drop perfect boolits from the first cast when preheated.

if your loads will be 1600 fps or less, you should be able to get by with straight wheel weight lead. Add 1-2 % tin to aid in mold fillout and should not have to water drop or heat treat unless you get over 1400 fps, sometimes even higher in velocity. My 44 cal mold is a plain base and I have loaded that up to 1650 fps in the Marlin with no leading. Those boolits are heat treated wheel weights and using the BAC 2000 lube and sized to .433 since the barrel groove dia is .431.

For fluxing I use a dry wood stick for stirring the pot, so far has worked great for me. Just make sure the wood is dry, to much moisture in the wood will cause lead pop ups that will get your hand.

Hope this helps, try to keep it simple and follow a few good basic rules and you will have fun casting and shooting your own boolits. Just remember, hardness is not as important as the proper fit of the boolit to the gun barrel and throats. Slug your barrels and your revolver cylinder throats for a proper fit.

[canyon-ghost]

Sir, you're a guy that cares. I jumped into casting without question, most of your queries are right. Gas checks and heat treat, or linotype, are for higher velocities but, the smaller rifle bullets are sometimes easier. For big magnums, think harder alloy. I flux with parafin, I guess you already discovered how flammable that is. Fluxing uses hydrocarbons and parafin has plenty.

Just remember that in casting bullets, any mistake is either just paid for dollarwise or timewise. I like to think, "I'm a big boy, I can take care of that!" Seems to fix most things. Patience is probably the most valuable attribute to have. Casting bullets isn't all that hard, it usually goes pretty smooth. You can always remelt them (in about 20 minutes) if you want to change results.

The way I started out was the simple catalog order way, Lyman and RCBS iron molds, Lyman Master Casting Kit, and RCBS press and scale. Also bought a powder measure. Can't help much with Lee, I don't own any Lee equipment. The iron molds give you a chance to get the process down pat. The 4500 with heat is worthwhile if you use a hard lube, I use Carnuba Red (not expensive). I don't think I would have liked using Aluminum molds first, not as easy for me (or as indestructible).

Go ahead, jump in here and 'Come pour your own!'

Ron

[Charlie Two Tracks]

There is so much information on this site that it can be intimidating. I haven't been doing this long enough to answer your questions but here's what I did and am doing. I got the safety gear first and then a cast iron pot and turkey fryer to smelt the WW. I got a cheap thermometer that only went up to 750 deg. and proceded to melt that sucker on the first try. (I went and bought a good one then). After the lead melted I fluxed with some candle wax and about spilled the mix when the wax caught fire and surprised me (I use sawdust now). I used a ladle to put the melted lead into muffin tins and after I spilled some on the driveway, I moved the tray onto the grass. When the pot was about empty I started to lift the pot and realized that if I continued the whole thing would spill. (do not lift a pot of melted lead). I would try to get some boolits cast and see how they turn out and then procede. Be careful. 700 deg. lead is crazy hot and can do incredible damage. This hobby is a riot and well worth the time it takes to get started. I'm pretty sure there is no end to the learning. Have fun.

[Bret4207]

I have wanted to get into casting for a long time, and have a mold (Mihec H&G 53) and a cpl of Lee sizer dies. Calibers I will cast for are 357/44 Spc/44 Mag/45 ACP handguns and a bunch of Milsurp rifles eventually. For the handguns, I expect to push heavy cast bullets to b/n 850-1150 fps. I intend to us gas checks on all rifle bullets. I am going to smelt/start with WWs and add tin. Also intend to smelt the WWs in a large cast iron dutch oven over a gas burner/coleman stove. Looking to pick up a Lee 20 lb furnace for casting.

I have some simple stupid NOOB questions. Any info would be appreciated. Thanx

1) Can I shoot the bullets unsized? With WW/tin alloy, I expect to be probably .001/002 over bore.Yes, if they fit the guns chamber when loaded.

2) IF I don't size, will the Lee Alox work? Can I simply put the bullets on a tray and put the Alox on them? Will this provide adequate lube? Yes, put them in a tub or bag and lube them that way. Much easier than what you describe.

3) IF I need to size bullets, will the Lee sizers/Alox work on all types of bullets? Or just the Lee mold bullets with all the lube grooves in them? Or will I actually need to go with a Lyman sizer and hard lube, melted in the sizer?Lee sizers work on all types of boolits

4) IF I must size the bullets with the Lyman - am I giving up anything by buying a older used 45/450 sizer, vs a newer 4500 sizer? Is a lube heater worth the extra cost?I prefer the 45 to the 450 myself. A heater isn't needed unless you use one of the crayon type lubes or size in cold weather in an unheated area.

5) In handguns, for 850-1000 fps, I am not worried about bullet hardness with WW/tin alloy - expect them to drop at/near 15 BHN. When I push beyond 1000 fps, I expect/assume I need to have harder bullets. Assuming I don't cast Linotype (due to expense) what is the recommended method to increase the hardness? Water quench out of the mold? Oven heat treat? Should I quench treat for the lower velocites, and oven treat for 1000+ fps?Todays WW run closer to 8-9 than 15. But- it's just a number. Don't worry about that Bhn, it's basically just advertising hype for the applications you're talking about. Worry about boolit fit and learn to work with the alloys available to you. You don't NEED heat treated alloys for speed/pressure up into the 13-1500fps range in a handgun, but sometimes it makes things easier. BOOLIT FIT IS PARAMOUNT. Read that 5 or 6 times and get it in your head, FIT IS KING. Hardness, or lack of hardness is a tool, nothing more. Quenching and oven HT will get you close to the same thing. Forget all about it at this point and concentrate of learning to cast perfect boolits.

6) I would like to shoot some hvy 300 grn 44 Mag bullets. Do I bite the bullet and use Linotype? or gas check/heat treat? Thoughts/recommendations? Gas checks always make things easier, for the rest of the question refer back to the paragraph above.

7) For rifle bullets in Milsurps, I intend to exclusively use gas checks. Same basic question. Can I use gas checks + heat treating - or do I need to bite the bullet and use Linotype? If Linotype, heat treat too? Best recommendations here?I've taken GC designs up over 2K regularly with straight WW alloy. Get the advertising hype out of your head. Start reading the posts here.

8) IF I use gas check molds, can I also shoot them at lower velocities (handguns) w/o the gas checks w/o any problems? Honestly, I struggle to see the diff b/n the base of a gc bullet w/o gc, and the BB bullets so common - just the engineer in me! In some guns with some loads some GC designs sans GC work okay, a few work very well. Depends on the gun and what you can make work.

9) Any recommendations for mold break in, use, warm-up, storage, diff b/n aluminum and steel molds, etc, would be greatly appreciated. What about brass molds?

10) What is the best material for fluxing? I used old candles for some of my preliminary smelting. Also see where sawdust/cedar shavings work very well.Stir/scrape with a dry stick of some sort. No meed for exotic fluxing material. It's carbon you're after.


I suggest you read the stickies and very, very strongly suggest you get this idea of a higher Bhn being "better" out of your head. Your main concern at this point should be learning to cast as close to perfect boolits as you can. In time you'll find your own "best" methods. There are few "rules" in this game, it's more art than science.

[44man]

Thanks Bret for giving him a very comprehensive answer. Covered very well.
I can relay a little about the .44 and even faster revolvers like my 45-70. Leading has not been an issue at all and even a 50-50, WW and pure boolit, oven hardened will not lead. However, if shot too fast they tend to skid so a gas check will return accuracy. My 45-70 tops 1600 fps so a PB does not shoot good but a gas check turns the gun into a laser. Switching to a water dropped WW boolit, then a PB shoots like a laser too. My PB is well over 1600 fps and has done less then an inch at 100 yards with no leading.
The .44 runs fine with water dropped WW boolits and I don't even add tin. A PB boolit is fine as is a 300 gr and up boolit. If you shoot softer lead a gas check is advised but the .44 does not need softer and it does not need super hard, WW's work fine. Air cooled is OK with a gas check.
Everyone knows I do not like a semi wadcutter so the problem will be finding a PB mold for a RNFP or an LBT style with a PB, you might have to buy checks, just do it.
The Lee 310 gr is a wonderful boolit in the .44 as is the RD 265 gr. Boolits will be best at .432" and lubed with Felix. Do the search for Felix and make some. You can rub it into the grooves with your fingers then run through a lapped out .432" lee die to remove extra lube. Messy but they darn sure shoot! :holysheep
I don't like Lee liquid Alox!
Bret is right about BHN, think tough instead of hard. Get the boolit the right size and make it tough enough to take the rifling. You can take a lot of alloys and make them tough. Maybe strong is a better word! It is amazing what you can do with a bucket of water or the kitchen oven.
I hope I don't confuse you, just relax. Everyone knows I am crazy and thinks a revolver should shoot like a rifle----yes they can and with little work, just a little thought.
Here is what I got at 200 yards with a .44 SBH while testing drop with a 75 yard setting. The boolit is water dropped WW metal, weighs 330 gr and I made the mold for a gas check. I use 21 gr of 296 and a Fed 150 primer. I use Hornady dies and Felix lube.
I started deer season with five loads, shot three deer and have two shots left. Yeah, crazy as a fox! [smilie=l:

[oscarflytyer]

Bret/KNifemaker/et al

Thanx for the info. Bret - I have been leaning towards the size over BHN - but it is good to hear again. At least I didn't ask about zinc in the alloy!

I am just going to jump in. As stated, worst case I have to remelt! Thanx again.

[Wayne Smith]

Oscar, you are over thinking this thing. Just go out and do it. You already have the basics, now you need to build experience. Yes, you will make mistakes. Our goal is not to have you avoid mistakes but to avoid the dangerous ones and to learn from the others.

Once you have cast a few and have some results to discuss we will be able to give you specific advice. My advice now is to spend the bad weather reading the stickies and start casting as soon as you can.

[Blammer]

so far I mostly agree with the above.

Take that info as your first stepping stone on your learning path and you'll do all right!

I shoot my 44mag a bunch with a bunch of different wt boolits and a bunch of diff velocity levels. All I ever use is WW's air cooled. Some GC'ed some plain base. They do well for me.

[JJC]

Bret/KNifemaker/et al


I am just going to jump in. As stated, worst case I have to remelt! Thanx again.

That's the way to go. I have been casting for a while and never took it to seriously, till I found this place. I have learned alot, the help and advice is outstanding, and quick to arrive. John

[chris in va]

1) Maybe. I don't size my 45ACP's.

2) I hate Lee Alox. Johnson Paste Wax/mineral spirits dry a lot faster, isn't tacky and works very well.

3) Yes, they work on 'normal' bullets. You're not supposed to size the TL designs.

5) Just water drop them, leave in a plastic container for a few days and they'll reach about 22BHN. I do this with my 9mm, but towel drop my 45's.

9) I use Lee molds, just be sure to wash thoroughly first with Dawn and water. Dip the mold (with sprue plate open) in the melt for a minute first, no wrinkles.

[oscarflytyer]

Oscar, you are over thinking this thing. Just go out and do it. You already have the basics, now you need to build experience. Yes, you will make mistakes. Our goal is not to have you avoid mistakes but to avoid the dangerous ones and to learn from the others.

Once you have cast a few and have some results to discuss we will be able to give you specific advice. My advice now is to spend the bad weather reading the stickies and start casting as soon as you can.

ME?!? Overthink, or over-engineer something? I have NEVER been accused of that (*********!!!)! My buddy and I once built a 16x20 ft deck that you could have parked a pickup on and I would have slept under it!!! And my wife would love your response, AND laugh and say 'I told you so!'

[1Shirt]

Oscar, Buy Lyman Cast Reloading Manuals. Suggest getting all of them starting with the new one available from Midsouth or Midway, and getting the older ones via E-Bay.
Read them and read the words of wisdom in the responses on this forum. You have a lot of questions, most of which have been answered at one time or another on Castboolits if you go to the right place. But just to answer one, I stur my melt with a free from the paint store stur stick, and that takes care of me and my flux and have never had a problem. Good luck!
1Shirt!

[quilbilly]

I won't try to answer all of your questions but will give you my experiences.
First- I find Alox to have worked just fine for my shooting needs at velocities up to 1900 fps. Second- I agree with the previous responder about getting hardness out of your head. Your current wheelweight alloy and Liquid Alox will work fine for all of your needs w/o gas checks up to 1150 fps and w/GC up to 1900 fps. You could even go with a little softer alloy with the gas checks for hunting purposes. Third - I recommend buying a micrometer to check the size of the boolits you cast to see if they really need sizing.

[canyon-ghost]

Brett is giving you the straight story. The magnums will more than likely be the ones to give you the most trouble, if you start pushing velocity way on up (and I'm more than guilty of that). But, Wheelweight has fired almost everything I've shot in the last 10 years so, jump in and cast. I have no fear of learning to clean guns really good, I love the way I dirty them up!

Ron

PS: Glad I came back, 44man shows me a 200 yard target that's great. Love the Blackhawk.
Yeah, crazy as a fox! Indeed.