Bullet starting

[jonk]

I have a fine starter for my inline using sabots and conicals; however for my traditional cap and flintlocks, shooting patched round balls the starter rod always makes a huge gouged ring in the top of the ball. Anyone have any suggestions?

[docone31]

Sand the piece a little. Take the sharp out.
Mine does that also. I just ignore it.

[waksupi]

I would suggest making a looser patch/ball combination. If you need a short starter, you are most likely loading tighter than the old timers did. Another thing to consider, I have seen more ringed barrels from short started rounds than from any other cause.

[Alan]

Take a piece of 320 grit emery cloth and using your thumb for pressure break the sharp edges on the muzzle and put a slight radius that will swage the ball/patch combo down to size as it is loaded. This lets you run a lot tighter combo than otherwise, and allows easier loading of not-so-tight combo's. As docone said, altering the shape of the starter will also help.

A slightly hardened ball will help also. I generally don't worry about it either - in fact, the balls that have a sprue get it smashed back and smoothed a bit. 8)

[northmn]

Short started loads are more accurate as a rule, but how much more is a maater of preference as thumb started will hit minute of gong or deer. Alan's suggestion is a good one in that many traditional rifles do not have a good crown. Anothr tip is to put the emery around a ball of the size you shoot and work it around the crown to smooth it out. You can also buy a jag to match the caliber and make your own seater. rings do not seem to matter all that much so you can also ignore it.

DP

[MT Gianni]

I would suggest making a looser patch/ball combination. If you need a short starter, you are most likely loading tighter than the old timers did. Another thing to consider, I have seen more ringed barrels from short started rounds than from any other cause.

Ric, do you mean short started rounds that were then never run down to the powder?

[waksupi]

Ric, do you mean short started rounds that were then never run down to the powder?

Yep, people get talking, and forget where they were in the loading process. Happens fairly often.

[docone31]

I had thought that unreasonable, then I dry loaded several in a ROW!
I had to remove the nipple for each one.
I guess I joined the club.
I couldn't imagine anyone forgetting something like a short start, but then again, I couldn't imagine anyone forgetting the powder!
It happens with smokepoles.

[mooman76]

It's not hard to do when you get telling war stories while loading and you're paying more attention to the story than what you are doing.

[parson48]

I've always put a "witness mark" on my ramrods to guard against short seating a load.

I've also made short starters by teeing a 5/16 dowel into a short portion of broom handle or something similar. They start tight fitting patched balls without damaging. And they are cheap!

[nanuk]

are you guys worried about the damage effecting accuracy?

I remember reading an article (Fadala?) where the RB was scored with an X and seated with the X towards the front and then towards the rear.
the finding was the damaged RB was far less accurate when seated forward than seated rearward

I think that was the outcome. why I remember this (incorrectly?) is he suggested seating a RB sprue down.

I really should find that book.. I think it was Fadala's book about black powder shooting.
(there also was an article about double ball shooting)

does anyone else remember these articles?

[curator]

For serious target shooting: A good short starter should have both the nub and rod faces exactly match the curve of the ball you are shooting. One size all commercial starters are mostly trash. You should be able to use a mallot to seat the ball and not distort it. Same is true for the business end of your ram/loading rod. Both Dixie and TOW sell brass rod ends. Get a few in the caliber for your rifle and make a propper starter. Emory cloth on the ball and rod end in an electric drill will grind the rod end to a perfect fit. Also, the "ball-set" or nub end should be the correct height so when a ball is seated in the muzzle with a patch it is exactly flush with the muzzle. That way when the patch is trimmed your patch knife barely clears the ball. Too deep and the extra patching material can influence accuracy . Hunting and loading in the field is another matter altogether.

[gnoahhh]

Sprue up, always. The reason is that no two sprues are perfectly exactly the same, and also how can you get it positioned exactly the same each time? Both factors would have a deletrious effect on accuracy. For THE definitive treatise on accuracy with deformed noses vs. bases on projectiles of all types, read "The Bullet's Flight From Powder to Target" by Dr. F.W.Mann. (Google Books has it on line.) Mann found, 100 years ago, that deformed noses weren't too critical, but bases had to be perfect. Extrapolating that to a round ball, the orientation of said ball in the bore determines which surface represents the base, and which the nose. If I'm doomed to having a non-uniform deformity on all of my projectiles, I want those deformities on the "nose".

P.S. Anyone who considers themself to be a serious lead bullet shooter should read this book. Those guys (Mann, Pope, Neidner) worked out solutions to problems with lead bullets 100 years ago the likes of which I see pop up on forums like this every day. Those guys did us a huge favor all those years ago. Too bad each succeeding generation chooses to largely ignore this work, and keeps on asking the same questions over and over, and reinventing the wheel every few years.

[John Taylor]

In the heat of competition I saw a ram rod go down range. It was fun scoring the target as it hit the 10,9,8,7,6,5 rings. Good shot but the shooter did not get off the rest of the required shots for the match.

[gnoahhh]

I saw a steel rammer go down range out of a re-ennactors musket once. Thank God there weren't any "enemy" troops in front of us. He was instructing some newbies when it happened. It made a funny twanging sound as it flew through the air. Drove home the reason we were never allowed to take to the field with rammers in our guns.

As an aside, our drummer boy came off the battlefield one day white as a ghost. He said someone shot at him with a live round. Sure enough there was a .69 caliber hole in the side of his drum. Whatever it was, it was still in there. We took the drum apart and found a tampion. Some idiot took to the field with a pre-loaded gun and forgot to take the tampion out of his muzzle before firing.

[saz]

This is an old post from another forum I did about 2 years ago-


I had a little time to myself today, so I got busy doing a project I've wanted to do for a long time- make my own short starter. I used a an 8 ball and an old brass punch. The punch had a knurled handle, so i used my trusty lathe (a cordless drill and a couple of good files) and smoothed out all of the knurling. Then I cut off half of the punch tip for the nib, took a 3/8" drill bit and drilled into that and the handle end of the punch. A little emry paper and lapping with a .570 roundball covered with sandpaper, drill 2 holes, a little epoxy and voila!!!! I know that it isnt a big project, but I enjoy making my own stuff. It is a blast.

[nicholst55]

I buy short starters sized for the specific caliber/rifle; that helps reduce damage from starting the ball. No way you can tell me that a 3/8" starter (the common size for one-size-fits-all equipment) is ideal for a .54 or .62 rifle! Smoothing the edges of the brass part with sandpaper also helps tremendously!

[DanWalker]

This is an old post from another forum I did about 2 years ago-


I had a little time to myself today, so I got busy doing a project I've wanted to do for a long time- make my own short starter. I used a an 8 ball and an old brass punch. The punch had a knurled handle, so i used my trusty lathe (a cordless drill and a couple of good files) and smoothed out all of the knurling. Then I cut off half of the punch tip for the nib, took a 3/8" drill bit and drilled into that and the handle end of the punch. A little emry paper and lapping with a .570 roundball covered with sandpaper, drill 2 holes, a little epoxy and voila!!!! I know that it isnt a big project, but I enjoy making my own stuff. It is a blast.
You ever get that powder horn done?

[northmn]

One other tip on a short starter. Some like to drill a hole and insert the starter over the tail end of the ramrod for final ball seating, when the ball is almost finsihed seated. Sometimes helps on fouled barrels and some rods, especially the ones in the rifle have a rounded end.

DP

[saz]

You ever get that powder horn done?

WOW! It is funny you mentioned that- I just had that thing out at the range about 2 weeks ago and I accidentally knocked it off the bench and broke the end cap. I just had it on my bench yesterday working on it. I found one solid piece of pine for the inside, and I have 2 options for the outside cap. There is a couple of pieces of oak floating around here somewhere, or I have some semi dry alaskan birch I cut this fall I could make it out of........ Decisions, decisions. BTW that thing was a lot of fun to make! Thanks a lot Dan! Ill keep ya posted.