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View Full Version : "Lead will melt inside your barrel over 1200 fps"



zomby woof
12-11-2010, 03:05 PM
Shot our monthly CMP match today. It was the first time I've had the Garand and cast at this match. The range officer sees me shooting boolits ( he's a friend and accomplished highpower shooter) "How fast are those going?" 1900 fps I said. "Lead melts in your barrel after 1200 fps." I'm in the middle of my slow prone string and say they're gas checked. I get the head shake from him.

After the match he asks me to bring my rifle over to the bench and he gets out his bore scope. "I want to see inside your barrel." Sure, BTW it hasn't had a full cleaning in a couple hundred rounds. The lands where lead colored but by no means was this barrel leaded up. He was still not convinced. "Well I see a little lead, and your crown needs work" Just like a 22 I said, have fun cleaning your copper out. I called him a Lead Hater and a couple of the guys standing around got a kick out of it.

A beautiful winter day in upstate NY 36 degrees and no wind. What a great way to spend a Saturday morning.

RobS
12-11-2010, 03:10 PM
He was still not convinced. "Well I see a little lead, and your crown needs work" Just like a 22 I said, have fun cleaning your copper out. I called him a Lead Hater and a couple of the guys standing around got a kick out of it.

And he is at home cleaning away with multiple patches and copper solvent thinking to himself as you run a brush through yours once or twice and now moved onto something else. :D You could have rubbed it in more by cleaning your rifle in a few quick strokes in front of him. :bigsmyl2:

454PB
12-11-2010, 03:18 PM
Yeah, there's always somebody at my range that is absolutely clueless about cast boolits, and spouts all the old "wives tales" about the evils of unjacketed projectiles.

It's fun to show them what a properly cast and loaded boolit can do.

I had a young guy and his 10 year old daughter next to me recently, and he was directing her attention to my Ruger SBH Lipsey .45 colt as I was changing targets. He asked to show her one of my loaded rounds, and I handed him one. He apparently had never seen a "home made" boolit, and was amazed that the target I had just removed had 6 holes you could cover with a silver dollar.

geargnasher
12-11-2010, 03:29 PM
More lead for us!!!!!!

Gear

Hickory
12-11-2010, 03:37 PM
I'm suprised he didn't tell that you'll shoot the rifling out of your rifle.

Rangefinder
12-11-2010, 03:41 PM
"Lead melts in your barrel after 1200 fps."

:D if that were true, I'd have trouble pushing a toothpick down the barrel of most of my rifles before I managed a 5-shot group... LOL Oh, and did you hear?? A .357 Magnum can shoot through an engine block! (but only with hard-cast bullets moving 1199fps or jacketed that you don't even have to hit it with because a near-miss is powerful enough to kill an African elephant ;) )

Bullshop
12-11-2010, 03:51 PM
I get a twisted knot in the pit of my stomach when I hear these things coming from people that the general public looks to as the source of knowledge.
Because of it the same public looks to the truly knowledgeable as crackpots. Twisted!

thx997303
12-11-2010, 03:55 PM
I guess my barrel isn't clean then.

Sure looked like it last night. :groner:

Tom W.
12-11-2010, 04:38 PM
Some people are educated waaaaay beyond practical needs....

NSP64
12-11-2010, 05:15 PM
I bought a brand new Savage Edge in 308, and have only shot lead through it. I have not cleaned it in 400 rounds. I Look down the barrel every now and then, still looks brand new. I have been shooting lee soup cans at 1700 fps will al gc and speed green.

fatnhappy
12-11-2010, 06:14 PM
Shot our monthly CMP match today. It was the first time I've had the Garand and cast at this match. The range officer sees me shooting boolits ( he's a friend and accomplished highpower shooter) "How fast are those going?" 1900 fps I said. "Lead melts in your barrel after 1200 fps." I'm in the middle of my slow prone string and say they're gas checked. I get the head shake from him.

After the match he asks me to bring my rifle over to the bench and he gets out his bore scope. "I want to see inside your barrel." Sure, BTW it hasn't had a full cleaning in a couple hundred rounds. The lands where lead colored but by no means was this barrel leaded up. He was still not convinced. "Well I see a little lead, and your crown needs work" Just like a 22 I said, have fun cleaning your copper out. I called him a Lead Hater and a couple of the guys standing around got a kick out of it.

A beautiful winter day in upstate NY 36 degrees and no wind. What a great way to spend a Saturday morning.

Where in upstate NY?

madsenshooter
12-11-2010, 06:28 PM
To some, the word "lead", means just that. In their minds it's the soft, easily squished, ductile metal, they know nothing of alloys. But then I imagine I could beat 1200fps even with pure if I did it right.

canyon-ghost
12-11-2010, 06:32 PM
I learned to shoot silhouettes much the same way, friend of mine that was the range officer. I had to learn to reload then, to cast lead bullets. He never told me that lead melts at 1200 fps, we were shooting 22 hornet at 1800 fps anyway.

Texas is a whole other country,
Ron

Marlin Junky
12-11-2010, 08:14 PM
I get a twisted knot in the pit of my stomach when I hear these things coming from people that the general public looks to as the source of knowledge.
Because of it the same public looks to the truly knowledgeable as crackpots. Twisted!

At the risk of posting a politically related comment in a non-political arena of "Cast Boolits": Now you know how informed conservatives feel in everyday life. [smilie=b:

MJ

c3d4b2
12-11-2010, 08:23 PM
Yeah, there's always somebody at my range that is absolutely clueless about cast boolits, and spouts all the old "wives tales" about the evils of unjacketed projectiles.

I wonder if the "old wives tales" were started by lead bullet shooters so there would be less competition for the lead.

BruceB
12-11-2010, 08:24 PM
" But then I imagine I could beat 1200fps even with pure if I did it right."

Yep.

On the ONE occasion that I tried pure lead in a "modern" cartridge it was in my Ruger #1 in .416 Rigby. I made no special efforts at all, and just loaded the RCBS pure-lead bullets over my normal "hunting" load of 55.0/5744, same sized diameter and same lubricant.

Firing about a dozen rounds (2050 fps) yielded no visible leading whatever, and a group of just under 2" for TEN rounds at 100 yards. Wheelweight-alloy bullets from the same mould with the same load will put ten into 1"-1.25" at 100. I have to think that a pure-lead 370-grain bullet at 2000-plus would be a VERY effective game load.

Maineboy
12-11-2010, 10:23 PM
I joined a gun club about 10 years ago that during the winter holds a monthly military rifle shoot. The match is 5 relays of 10 rounds, 3 standing, 3 sitting or kneeling and 4 prone with no time limit. It's a pretty low keyed shoot with more emphasis on fun than on scores. We usually have 12-20 shooters and when I started, 90% of them were shooting surplus ammo, factory ammo, or full power reloads. The rest of us were shooting light cast boolit loads. I remember lots of polite skepticism when I would explain what I was shooting. Now it seems like those numbers are reversed. The relays are alot quieter now and the scores are much better.

zomby woof
12-11-2010, 10:30 PM
Where in upstate NY?

GCL
Penfield

nanuk
12-12-2010, 02:52 AM
A .357 Magnum can shoot through an engine block! (but only with hard-cast bullets moving 1199fps




I do know that a Jboo can go through a floorboard AND the top casing of a transmission!

(not mine, but I saw the aftermath)

1Shirt
12-12-2010, 11:32 AM
Have an old guy (my age) show up at the range when I am there quite often. Nice guy, retired military (like me), and he shoots Camp Perry every year. The first time he set up next to me, to shoot his M1 Carbine, he looked over and saw that I was shooting cast in a 308. He wasn't one of those who said cast won't shoot, or the 1200 fps, etc, but said that he had just never seen anybody shoot cast in a rifle. Said he had shot some handgun with cast that someone else had cast for him, and that they shot ok. About 25-30 rounds later when we went down range to check targets, he commented that my 10 shot groups were tighter than his 5 shot groups, and asked about vol. Was shooting 180 gr. loads that were running close to 2000 fps. He was quite amazed. He has probably been at the range when I was shooting 10 or 12 times in the last year. He always says "you still shooting them lead bullets", and I say "sure, cant see wasteing money on jacketed". He has seen me shoot cast now in 22Hornet, 6.5x55, 7x57, 308, 30-30, 375H&H, 357(Rifle), and 45-70. Have even let him fire a few rounds . He always seems impressed, but he shoots a lot of factory and mil surplus rounds. Nice guy, but obviously has more money than me, but at least he is not one of those dumbutts who is an expert on cast never having pulled the trigger on a rifle with cast in it. He really had a hard time believing that I would spend the time casting for 22 center fires. Guys like him I don't mind. It is just possible that someday, I may make a convert out of him.
1Shirt!:coffee:

fatelk
12-12-2010, 01:13 PM
I have a friend who absolutely refuses to shoot lead bullets in anything. He says that 20+ years ago he and a friend used to buy bulk lead 9mm bullets and load and shoot them in their pistols. They ended up spending hours scraping the lead out of the barrels.:sad:

I tried to tell him that that's a lot like saying "I drove a Pinto once, and it broke down, so I'll never buy a Ford", but he's just convinced that lead is bad.

I didn't know a whole lot more about casting than he does until I came here. This place is great.

SciFiJim
12-12-2010, 01:22 PM
he shoots a lot of factory and mil surplus rounds.

It is just possible that someday, I may make a convert out of him.

In the mean time, make sure to get his spent brass before someone else does. :)

deltaenterprizes
12-12-2010, 04:28 PM
Have an old guy (my age) show up at the range when I am there quite often. Nice guy, retired military (like me), and he shoots Camp Perry every year. The first time he set up next to me, to shoot his M1 Carbine, he looked over and saw that I was shooting cast in a 308. He wasn't one of those who said cast won't shoot, or the 1200 fps, etc, but said that he had just never seen anybody shoot cast in a rifle. Said he had shot some handgun with cast that someone else had cast for him, and that they shot ok. About 25-30 rounds later when we went down range to check targets, he commented that my 10 shot groups were tighter than his 5 shot groups :coffee:

I hope your groups were tighter than his, he was shooting a 30 Carbline!:kidding:

A friend that does gunsmithing had a guy bring him a 30 Carbine and wanted to know if he could get it to shoot as good as his as his benchrest gun!

44man
12-12-2010, 04:47 PM
You don't all see it. I shoot the molten lead right back into the mold and can shoot it right away with little work! :brokenima

fatnhappy
12-12-2010, 08:35 PM
GCL
Penfield

I'm in Henrietta. I didn't even know GCL had CMP matches. I thought the closest were in Attica.

BruceB
12-12-2010, 08:54 PM
Gents:

PLEASE don't use abbreviations which are meaningless to those of us "not in the know".

Shortened terms that YOU are familiar with, are not necessarily familiar to everyone, and using them often leaves most of us groping in the dark. This applies not only to geography, but to many other subjects as well.

Now...what in blazes is "GCL"???? Please?

Love Life
12-12-2010, 09:12 PM
My favorite was when one of my friends who has not been converted to cast boolits told me "you will wear out your barrel in 5,000 rounds shooting lead." I told him I was ashamed to know him.lol.

quilbilly
12-13-2010, 01:23 AM
My original impression from twenty-five plus years ago was that the only time "molten lead" was an issue in a barrel was with the hollow-base, original style, mini-balls used in the Great Rebellion (Civil War) and only if they were driven supersonic. The bases of the original mini's looked so thin when I cast them that I never challenged the notion so I don't know if it true or not. Those 400+ grain mini's in my Enfield would do more than enough damage at 1100 fps.

Mk42gunner
12-13-2010, 02:04 AM
I have a friend who absolutely refuses to shoot lead bullets in anything. He says that 20+ years ago he and a friend used to buy bulk lead 9mm bullets and load and shoot them in their pistols. They ended up spending hours scraping the lead out of the barrels.:sad:

I tried to tell him that that's a lot like saying "I drove a Pinto once, and it broke down, so I'll never buy a Ford", but he's just convinced that lead is bad.

I didn't know a whole lot more about casting than he does until I came here. This place is great.

I've got a friend that thinks new out of the box wheelweights are what is needed to make boolits from. He has supplied a few boxes of new ones, he also brings me buckets of used Wheelweights to make snagging sinkers from.

They all have to be smelted, I do it in the same pot, at the same time.:bigsmyl2:

Robert

zomby woof
12-13-2010, 07:04 AM
Now...what in blazes is "GCL"???? Please?



Genesse Conservation League

It's our local shooting club.

jonk
12-13-2010, 12:01 PM
Have an old guy (my age) show up at the range when I am there quite often. Nice guy, retired military (like me), and he shoots Camp Perry every year. The first time he set up next to me, to shoot his M1 Carbine, he looked over and saw that I was shooting cast in a 308. He wasn't one of those who said cast won't shoot, or the 1200 fps, etc, but said that he had just never seen anybody shoot cast in a rifle. Well obviously he's never spotted for me at Perry because 90% of the time I shoot cast, unless there is an ammo draw required.

dakotashooter2
12-13-2010, 01:26 PM
Did you scracth your head and ask " I wonder who is shooting holes in my targets then"? [smilie=b:[smilie=b:

1Shirt
12-13-2010, 05:47 PM
Delta, My 10 shot groups at 100 were running between 2 1/2-3". His 5 shot groups with 30 Carb, were in the 5-6" catagory. I am one of those who is not satisfied with 5 shot groups for accuracy testing of a rifle, and you really don't want to know what I think about 3 shot groups.
1Shirt!:coffee:

old turtle
12-13-2010, 06:25 PM
Hickory, I had a guy at a gun shop tell me that. I have also been told that my two groove Springfield barrel wont shoot lead boolits. That stripper clips for an 8mm Mauser will not fit the base of 30-06. The world is full of experts.

357shooter
12-13-2010, 08:08 PM
Did you scracth your head and ask " I wonder who is shooting holes in my targets then"? [smilie=b:[smilie=b:At the risk of sidetracking: I was shooting at an indoor range with a snubbie at 7 yards. The lane next to me was shooting a 9mm also at 7 yards. It took me a few minutes to figure out where all the holes where coming from, but he was hitting my target as much as his.

I guess you could say I was speechless. I didn't say anything, what can you say without being a bit over the top. He was trying to hit his target... really he was trying hard.

Back on track; just shot a bunch of LBT 140 FN in a 357 mag revolver at 1300+. No problems. If I had a rifle I'd be shooting lead in that too...

LarryM
12-14-2010, 01:08 AM
My original impression from twenty-five plus years ago was that the only time "molten lead" was an issue in a barrel was with the hollow-base, original style, mini-balls used in the Great Rebellion (Civil War) and only if they were driven supersonic. The bases of the original mini's looked so thin when I cast them that I never challenged the notion so I don't know if it true or not. Those 400+ grain mini's in my Enfield would do more than enough damage at 1100 fps.


Of course you must be refering to to the "War of Northern Agression".
:bigsmyl2:

Not being the sharpest pencil in the box I rely on you guys to edumacate me on boolit casting and so far I haven't been let down.
As to those people that refues to be educated, I tend to let them wallow in their bliss and have as little to do with them as possible.

44man
12-14-2010, 10:21 AM
My original impression from twenty-five plus years ago was that the only time "molten lead" was an issue in a barrel was with the hollow-base, original style, mini-balls used in the Great Rebellion (Civil War) and only if they were driven supersonic. The bases of the original mini's looked so thin when I cast them that I never challenged the notion so I don't know if it true or not. Those 400+ grain mini's in my Enfield would do more than enough damage at 1100 fps.
Lead will not melt. The problem with the thin skirts was if too much powder was used, the skirt would flare after the Minie' ball left the confines of the barrel turning it into a shuttle cock. Makes a fine noise going down range! [smilie=w:

Donor8x56r
12-15-2010, 06:58 AM
I'm guess dislike of some toward cast boolits goes on ever since jacketed projectiles where invented.
I constantly get hassled (not in offensive way) about shooting casts,iron sights AND FFg black powder in 38-55 :) For some reason young shooters are more positive about it rather than my dad's generation.

mattbowen
12-15-2010, 09:05 AM
I think I would have had to ask him if led melts at 1200fps then why doesn't the tip on my sierra SPBT melt off since I push it at 2800fps (must be a big hollow point by the time it to the target).

WILCO
12-15-2010, 09:26 AM
Genesse Conservation League

It's our local shooting club.

Seems like a great place: http://www.gclrochester.com/

WILCO
12-15-2010, 09:28 AM
Shortened terms that YOU are familiar with, are not necessarily familiar to everyone, and using them often leaves most of us groping in the dark. This applies not only to geography, but to many other subjects as well.

When in doubt, I use Google. It knows everything.

45-70 Chevroner
12-15-2010, 10:55 AM
WILCO: I'm with BruceB on this one who the he!! would have known it was a local gun club except maybe the club members. Any more I just skip reading the ones with a lot of shortened words. Yeah I know some abreviations are ok like GC or Gr. and a very few others that I can't remember, so give us a break guys if you can't spell it look it up.
This is not pointed at you WILCO, I go to Google for a lot of things also but, GCL? Smiles!!!!!

jlchucker
12-20-2010, 12:51 PM
I for one don't want too many of these gun club, magazine reading experts to start casting their own. I mine those berms at my club for quite a bit of my lead supply, and don't need them doing the same thing. Let them keep believing what they believe, and let the guys who buy storebought cast bullets keep firing into those berms. On the pleasant afternoons when nobody's at my club, I always pick up a coffee can full of lead out of those berms. I don't need competition for this supply.
Darn it, though--maybe I better look at my guns to make sure the barrels are not plugged with all of that melted-up lead, or that my rifling is worn out from shooting all of my homecast bullets. Until I read this thread with you guys pointing out all of that advice the "experts" at your ranges have been giving you, I was totally unaware of the pitfalls.