Anyone shot the .72 Pedersoli Gibbs from Dixie?

[Alan]

I am on my 3rd .72 Kodiak from Dixie. I've been unable to get one that is regulated correctly. The current one is placing the shots about a foot apart at 50 yards, and I would have to replace the front sight to get POI down to a usable level. Its hitting about 8-10" high with the rear sight all the way down.:holysheep

Both barrels are shooting very well - tight groups about a foot apart. In fact, I tried to split the sights among the barrels, and the rear sight did not have enough windage adjustment to get the left barrel set for windage.

So I'm thinking about store credit on their .72 Gibbs African Hunter. It is set for RB, with a ghost ring tang sight and a gold bead ramp front. It's a bit lighter than the Kodiak, but I've fired the double with up to 140gr FFg, and it was tolerable. I don't need that much power, I was just trying to get the barrels to regulate. 80-110gr should be plenty of swat for the hogs I'll be shooting.

The only obvious gotcha is that like the Gibbs target rifles, it has no provision for a ramrod under the barrel, and looking at the closeup photo's, it looks like the stock isn't deep enough through the forearm to have room for a rod. Obviously, the intention was the gun bearer(s) would carry your cleaning gear.:roll:

On thinking of it, I came up with the idea of a leather or canvas scabbard worn on the back like a quiver or 2-handed sword scabbard. You could carry something like a 36" 5/8" hickory loading rod and a conventional ramrod for using cleaning jags and worms, etc.

Does this even sound doable? I've been fighting these Kodiaks so long I wanted a sanity check before trying to move on to plan B.

Alan

[longbow]

Well, I can't help you with any personal experience with the Gibbs but I see what you mean about the ramrod. Not sure what the answer is but it doesn't look as though there is provision for one.

If you are looking for big bore of more conventional style with provision for a ramrod take a look at these:

http://www.pacificriflecompany.blogspot.com/

or these:

http://www.octobercountry.com/rifles.php

A little pricier than the Kodiak but awfully nice!

I wish I could afford one.

Longbow

[Alan]

Thanks, LB. I had seen the PRC site, but had forgotten about October Country. The Zephyr's from PRC look really nice, and I've always wanted an underhammer. They also list a load of 250gr of BP, which is WAY more than I would feel comfortable shooting in a 9 lb rifle. It's nice to know an accidental double charge won't decorate the landscape with me or the rifle. :-P

I think I'll keep trying to work with Dixie on this since they have been patient with me, but at $30 a pop for shipping, it's getting a bit expensive.

Alan

[gnoahhh]

Keep us posted on how you make out. I too like the idea of a large caliber double barrel RB shooter for hunting, but have shied away from them after hearing so many tales of barrel regulation problems.

What so many ML double gun manufacturers and hobbyist/experimenters need to address is that problem.

[wellfedirishman]

Alan, I just picked up a Kodiak 72 (used but unfired off gunbroker) and it is a very nice looking gun. I haven't shot it yet.

Regarding regulation, have you tried using something other than round balls? Maybe a conical or Minie type bullet?

There is currently an auction on ebay for a Brooks Precision mold for one of these. Here's the description. I have no relation to the seller, was just interested in watching the item.

Item number: 250738059620
Brooks Precision Steel bullet mold for a Pedersoli Kodiak .72 caliber. Using soft lead the bullet dimensions are .724 for the bottom three bands and .729 for the top band. This will be slightly larger using a 30 to 1 alloy (lead/tin). Weight of the bullet is just under 900 grains with soft lead, slightly lighter using the alloy. I cast approximately 45 bullets with the mold.

[Pepe Ray]

Alan;
If it were me, and it may be next summer, I'd drop by the nearest building supply store and pick up a length of PVC pipe, 1 1/2" or 2" to use as a foundation for your "quiver". Strong, workable, paintable etc. It should give you a quick solution 'till you find something you like better.
Pepe Ray

[Alan]

I'm very leery of firing anything in a double that isn't a TIGHT fit in the bore. I can load a very tight patch on a RB and be sure it isn't going to move. I don't think you can get a conical that tight without something like a toggle-joint starter.

Plus, ultimately this is a hunting rifle - PRB's shoot much flatter, kill better, and penetrate better (when hardened) than a low velocity conical. You would be hard pressed to get a 900gr projectile to 1000 fps, where you can get the RB up to 1100-1200 with reasonable recoil. I think Pedersoli's recommended 80 gr powder charge is only doing 900-950 with the RB. Charges from 120 gr and upwards are ... interesting. (In the ancient Chinese proverb sense)

[405]

I guess I'm scratching my head about the idea that there would be a cheap, regulated, double rifle of any variety out there. I'm also not sure of the claim that a RB because of slightly higher velocity will penetrate better than a conical?

[Alan]

Low velocity conicals in slow twist barrels will not penetrate in a straight line. Due to very marginal stabilization. they hare off in WILDLY different paths. RB's are fully stabilized and will penetrate in a straight line. Use a hardened RB and you won't recover one except on some raking shots. I'm speaking here of large-bore RB's, .54 (28-bore) and up.

The consensus has been that Pedersoli makes pretty good guesses on regulation, and about 1 in 3 turns out really well. I've had a run of bad luck.

[northmn]

How bad is the regulation. I had a double once that shot farther apart at longer distances. Use of conicals will change the trajectory but in that one would not help regulation, except fopr the fact that they were less accurate and upon occasion might spray closer together. I doubt that spending any money on conicals would help. For cleaning and general loading in my flintlock smoothbores I use a regular aluminum screw toghether cleaning rod with a BP Jag. You could carry one unscrewed with you out in the field and use it to reload if needed. Generally with a BP firearm I have found that I do not load that much in the field. If you want to be more authentic you might try getting a wooden rod with ferrules. English hunters did not have those worries as they had gun bearers to carry all that stuff.

DP

[Alan]

The current gun is printing over a foot apart at 50 yards, about a foot high with the rear sight in it's lowest position, and the rear sight does not have enough windage adjustment to bring the left barrel in line vertically. I could move the sights in their dovetails to handle the last situation.

The 2nd gun I had was much better - only 6-8 inches apart and the elevation wasn't so squirrelly either. As a sanity check, I had a friend of mine fire the rifle too. His results were about the same.

One of the nice things about a slow twist RB rifle is that changes in powder charge do not usually change POI other than just flattening trajectory. These guns have demonstrated that - The POI wiggles a bit has I move up and down with powder charges, but mostly very close for each barrel. I think I would have to lighten the projectile significantly to move the POI together, and that is not really possible with a RB. If the barrels were crossing, I think I would have more options for fixing the situation, but the left barrel is printing left, and the right barrel is printing right.

[Ernest]

some times the bore guns will behave differently that a nitro double. that is they will be backwards in that recoil has more to do with regulation than velocity. I wold be tempted to change to FFF swiss and try 2 drams or 54 grains with a round ball up to 3 drams 3x 27= 80 grains. make sure that when ;you shoot nothing touches the gun but your hands..... that load will be recoil-less but at short ranges will kill a deer very well The most recent Double gun journal has an article about a gentleman that used a 2 1/3 or 3 dram powder charge in a 16 gauge to kill and elk very effectively

If that didn't work I would stick with the swiss fff and start going up the scale and see if I could get them to come together as velocity went up. with the swiss powder I think you will see meaningful increases in velocity. Any way sound like a fun project. keep us posted on how this turn out.

[Alan]

I had thought about 3F, but chickened out. But starting much lower may in fact be the answer. I normally don't use 3f an anything bigger than .45 - most of my percussion revolvers seem to prefer 2F. It is supposed to warm up today and tomorrow, so I may try it. If it will make a significant difference, I will give the double one more try - the last one I had was getting close to acceptable at only 6-8" apart.

[northmn]

Too high means the rear sight needs to go down or the front sight up. Sometimes a little of both. Big bores do not change much with small increments of powder charge change as in 10 grains as a rule because it takes a fair amount to increase velocity. The foot apart is a problem. 3or 4 inches woudl be acceptable, the 6-8?

DP

[451whitworth]

Alan, i shoot 3Fg Goex in my Kodiak .72 all the time. i found the velocity too low with Goex 2Fg without resorting to very large charges. the large bores and roundballs opperate at very low pressure even with 3Fg Goex. i also use Swiss 2Fg BP with great results in mine. Swiss has alot more energy than Goex thus more velocity so it can help change the point of impact due to barrel time.

[firefly1957]

I have had a Trail guns armory Kodiak since 1981 and really like it the barrels are on the paper at 100 yds and shoot very well.
I read a article when they brought that gun out and they did have to sight each barrel with a separate rear sight the barrels were not well regulated. I believe they used 220 grains of powder to hunt with that rifle. Try a article search on guns and ammo you might find the story there?

[Alan]

Well, it's here!

The first thing I noticed is that it it appears Pedersoli finally figured out what a fence is for. The one on this rifle looks like it will be much more effective than the ones on the Kodiaks.

Not sure I like the tang sight yet - I need to see it in daylight and how fine the adjustments are. This gun balances and points like a good shotgun. I have no qualms about the quality of Pedersoli's barrels, so if the recoil isn't too bad, this thing is going to be a hoot to shoot.

I will give a range report asap, but it may be a couple of weeks depending on work load and weather.

Alan

[Chris Smith]

I have a .500 BPE double and had a problem with regulation with it. The barrels arent marked to the proper load so I had to go it alone. I finally discovered a 380 grain bullet was correct. My findings were that lighter bullets crossed and heavier bullets shot apart. Lots heavier bullets shot really far apart. This is all due to recoil, velocity, pressure and how you hold the rifle. You might have to resort to a lighter projectile.

[Nobade]

Interesting thread about regulation in the Pedersoli doubles. I have one of the 12bore, (.72) rifles, and have found it works way better with Fg than smaller. It would shoot reasonably well with FFg up to about 100 grains, but never great. I tried Fg, working up until I hit 150gr. and lo and behold it shoots both barrels to the same point at 100 yards! I mean accurate, 5 shots from each barrel make one palm size hole in the paper. At the same velocity using FFg (130gr. IIRC) the left barrel was hitting a foot higher than the right, and about 6 inches left. Might be worth a try for those who are having problems with regulation.

[405]

Low velocity conicals in slow twist barrels will not penetrate in a straight line. Due to very marginal stabilization. they hare off in WILDLY different paths. RB's are fully stabilized and will penetrate in a straight line. Use a hardened RB and you won't recover one except on some raking shots. I'm speaking here of large-bore RB's, .54 (28-bore) and up.

The consensus has been that Pedersoli makes pretty good guesses on regulation, and about 1 in 3 turns out really well. I've had a run of bad luck.

Interesting
I guess I'm really a novice at shooting big game with MLs and need more experience. Only a few dozen large mule deer and bull elk to both roundballs and conicals. Oh, and then there was the large black bear I shot with 50 cal conicals- 4 complete pass throughs, both length wise and full broadside - no it wasn't point blank range, over bait or from a tree stand- it was spot and stalk at near timberline. Never have recovered a conical but recovered roundballs from most. I imagine a large roundball traveling pretty fast is plenty effective on small whitetails.

[camerl2009]

i have not shot the .72 but i did shoot a .50 and wow are that nice
seem to shoot goo groupes at 100yrd enough to hit a deer in the vitals

im working on some plans for making a .73/12 bore rifle with a 12ga rifled barrel
flintlock of course :roll:

[Moose Owner]

On thinking of it, I came up with the idea of a leather or canvas scabbard worn on the back like a quiver or 2-handed sword scabbard. You could carry something like a 36" 5/8" hickory loading rod and a conventional ramrod for using cleaning jags and worms, etc.

Does this even sound doable? I've been fighting these Kodiaks so long I wanted a sanity check before trying to move on to plan B.

Alan

Using a separate "loading rod" is not only doable, it is historically correct. In the book "The Gun; And How to Use It" by John B. Johnson. (Second Edition, 1860) the author indicates that by 1860 one half of English sportsmen used separate "loading rods" in preference to ramrods and that many guns of the period had no fittings for a ramrod.

The "loading rods" were apparently carried on the belt and hung down like a sword. Check out: www.muzzleloadingshotguns.com/articles/loadingrodsrangerods for more information on loading rods. I carry a "loading rod" on my hip when I am shooting skeet.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Some years ago I saw a photo in a book of a double rifle that had 2 set of sights ... one set for each barrel.
So while reading all this I thought why not use the regular barrel sights for one barrel then have another flip up sight for the other barrel ? Maybe even a tang sight. No more regulation trials. Could even carry a light load in on barrel and a STOPPER in the other.
I fire my Fox B 12 guage with the barrels reamed for RB with up to 135 grains of 2F. Needless to say it is not "Regulated" but I do not see it as a 100 yards target rifle but a Stopper.. up close and real deadly. Most what I have read about the usage of the big smoothbore rifles on game has generally spoke about ranges of well under 50 yards.
But then you do have rifling...

[camerl2009]

Greetings
Some years ago I saw a photo in a book of a double rifle that had 2 set of sights ... one set for each barrel.
So while reading all this I thought why not use the regular barrel sights for one barrel then have another flip up sight for the other barrel ? Maybe even a tang sight. No more regulation trials. Could even carry a light load in on barrel and a STOPPER in the other.
I fire my Fox B 12 guage with the barrels reamed for RB with up to 135 grains of 2F. Needless to say it is not "Regulated" but I do not see it as a 100 yards target rifle but a Stopper.. up close and real deadly. Most what I have read about the usage of the big smoothbore rifles on game has generally spoke about ranges of well under 50 yards.
But then you do have rifling...

2 sets of sights is what i was thinking to for a double rifle its a easy way to
make it shoot good