PB Blocker opinions

[texvet45]

Howdy;

I just got the latest copy of Dillon's Blue Press and saw the Southwest Shooting Authoriy's
It appears to be a barrel treatment that reduces the amount of leading.
Has anyone used it and commented on it ?
I have several handguns and a Marlin 1894 in .357 that I was thinking about using it on but I didn't want to buy a pig in a poke?

Texvet45

[captaint]

Tex - Don't know anyone that has tried the stuff. For 19 bux they really like that product. I have bought some lubricants from Dillon. Gotten some great stuff, Microlon Blue & Slide Glide for the 1911's. I actually look forward to that little thing. Usually, there's at least one good article in each.
enjoy Mike

[hplug]

Hey All,
I am new here but let me introduce my self, my name is Hayes and I am the manufacturer of Pb Blocker. I will tell you that Pb Blocker works and works very well you will be amazed. I also understand by the rules of the forum being a new guy I can not sell/list/barder etc. but texvet45 I will make you a deal, how about you pay shipping and I will send you a complementary bottle of Pb Blocker for your use and all I ask is you post your results here for everyone to see? I hope this is tollerable in the Admins eyes just want to make sure I am with in guide lines. You will find my contact info in my profile and please let me know if I can assist in anyway. Thanks
H

[HeavyMetal]

hplug;
Not sure how the rules will be read in this case but I do think you've made a stand up offer to Texvet45

Curious to see how this turns out.

[PrimitiveBeasty]

I've not heard of this product. I am interested in seeing the effectiveness of the product, should texvet45 choose to take the offer.

[Bret4207]

A generous offer. The initial question of course is- are you getting leading now? Have you done everything you can to ensure proper static and dynamic fit?

You can always try the stuff and see if it helps. Magic potions, like HARDCAST, are seldom the miracle cures we hope them to be, but trying won't hurt. Maybe this product will help.

[JJC]

Hey All,
I am new here but let me introduce my self, my name is Hayes and I am the manufacturer of Pb Blocker. I will tell you that Pb Blocker works and works very well you will be amazed. I also understand by the rules of the forum being a new guy I can not sell/list/barder etc. but texvet45 I will make you a deal, how about you pay shipping and I will send you a complementary bottle of Pb Blocker for your use and all I ask is you post your results here for everyone to see? I hope this is tollerable in the Admins eyes just want to make sure I am with in guide lines. You will find my contact info in my profile and please let me know if I can assist in anyway. Thanks
H

Stand up and good business. Does it help with a bore that has been leaded up? Or is this a pretreatment only? John

[MtGun44]

Never have any leading, no need for this.

Bill

[hplug]

Hello All,
Thank you for the nice words. Although Pb Blocker is fairly new it was launched after about 18 months of testing mostly done by Cope Reynolds and team from Southwest Shooting Authority.
Pb Blocker will not remove lead from leaded bores. It will however greatly reduce lead build up. Pb Blocker "coats" the barrel on a molecular level and actually bonds with the barrel producing a protective coating thus eliminating any attachment of materials. The product in one form or another has been in production since the 1950's although primarily used in the oil and gas industry. Some of the people who used our product used it to treat their firearms and swore by it and encouraged us to focus on the gun industry. Pb Blocker was specifically designed for leading issues in Glocks, but after testing we were glad to discover that this product has many uses in firearms.

Pb Blocker will:
Reduce leading by 95%+
create less friction
makes cleaning a snap as the protective coating eliminates build up be it brass, copper, plastic, lead, etc.
prevents fouling of anykind

Customers have used it for barrel treatment, trigger treatment (reduced friction smooth trigger), you can shoot hotter loads as the build up is reduced, dipped bullets, muzzleloadeder have greater velocity and accuracy, although in convention firearms the velocity is minimal it is present.

"A generous offer. The initial question of course is- are you getting leading now? Have you done everything you can to ensure proper static and dynamic fit? "

Thank you. I try to refrain from absolutes but it will eliminate 95% or more of leading.

"You can always try the stuff and see if it helps. Magic potions, like HARDCAST, are seldom the miracle cures we hope them to be, but trying won't hurt. Maybe this product will help."

Of course there is always a new product out there some work some don't. Lets just say a well known Major General was greatly impressed and said "all of our boys need this"

I've not heard of this product. I am interested in seeing the effectiveness of the product, should texvet45 choose to take the offer.

Most havent as we are still young to the market, but I tell you what, including texvet45, I will make the same offer to 10 members here. So as of now there are 9 openings you pay shipping and I will provide a full 3 ounce bottle. Please email me and I will put you on the list, you can also visit my website for a few testimonials.

"Not sure how the rules will be read in this case but I do think you've made a stand up offer to Texvet45"

Thank you I just want to be straight forward, I did notice that I was inspected by a moderator but was not contacted so I guess I am okay but if it is an issue, I will do my best to stay above board.

"Curious to see how this turns out."

I have a good idea how it willturn out, but all feedback good or bad is always encouraged, I have set up a blog on my website for just this purpose. I have not reinvented the wheel but I can reduce the friction of the wheels axle.

Thank you all again for the kind words and I look forward to helping us all out in any little way I can.
Hayes

P.S. My phone number is located on my website and if anyone needs to talk please feel free.

[crabo]

How often does it need to be reapplied?

[hplug]

We have shot 2500 rounds through a glock with minimal to no deteriation of the product but I would recommend using it after each cleaning this is the case where more is not a bad thing. Thanks,
H

[geargnasher]

OK, I'm game. My challenge is to see if a rifle bore properly cleaned and treated with this product will maintain the same level of long-range accuracy that it could with conventional means. I can see the benefits to pistol stuff, but my experiences using extra-slick boolit lubes or lubes with synthetic oils in them have always been negative on the accuracy with rifles. Seems there is such a thing as too slick, but a slicker static bore coating may have a much more consistent effect than the dynamics of slicker lube. I know lapped and polished bores shoot better most of the time, so this coating should be no different.

Email en route.

Gear

[hplug]

Great

1. Geargnasher headed your way!

[geargnasher]

Hplug, I added in the email that I also want to see if I can push a known consistent leading envelope related to velocity in the same guns, I'll do separate tests with each gun for both the accuracy comparisons with known good/accurate/lead-free loads and leading observations with slightly faster loads known to just cross the threshold of leading velocity without the treatment. Should be very interesting.

Thanks again,

Gear

[hplug]

Sounds great and you idea sounds very similar to a previous test conducted. I look forward to your results. Thanks,
H

[hplug]

I have sent out 5 bottles which means there are 4 left and one reserved for txvet45
H

[Nrut]

hplug,
Does your product cut back on copper fouling?
If so how does your product effect the first shot on a cold clean bore using jacketed bullets?

[hplug]

Does your product cut back on copper fouling?
If so how does your product effect the first shot on a cold clean bore using jacketed bullets?

Yes it will definately cut back on copper fouling, it should have no effect on your first round if used properly. Thanks,
H

[Recluse]

OK, I'm game. My challenge is to see if a rifle bore properly cleaned and treated with this product will maintain the same level of long-range accuracy that it could with conventional means. I can see the benefits to pistol stuff, but my experiences using extra-slick boolit lubes or lubes with synthetic oils in them have always been negative on the accuracy with rifles. Seems there is such a thing as too slick, but a slicker static bore coating may have a much more consistent effect than the dynamics of slicker lube. I know lapped and polished bores shoot better most of the time, so this coating should be no different.

Email en route.

Gear

Gear,

This was the VERY first thought that jumped out of my head, right after was the "I'm not getting any leading right now, so why do I need it?" question, with the notable exception of that old Gov't 70 that will lead up by simply waving it at a stack of wheel weights. :)

Couple of years or so ago, I concocted what I was convinced would be the end-all, be-all of stick lubes as it used several blended synthetics. Instead, what happened was I couldn't even keep mere 148WC ON THE TARGET at 50', let alone in the black, let alone in the ten-ring where I'm used to having them go.

The smaller and faster the boolit and the longer the barrel, the worse the results became. Felix explained why my end-all, be-all was barely even suitable to be a flux, let alone an effective boolit-lube.

Be interesting to see how this stuff performs. I know there are guns and bores out there, notably many 40 S&W, that are prone to leading no matter what is done (it seems).

If this stuff can help, then I look at it as another tool for the bench same as calipers, mic, lubesizer, water quenching, heat-treating, etc.

:coffee:

[geargnasher]

Recluse, I think among boolit lube experimenters there are two schools of thought. One is what most beginners think and the other is what they think after they discover through experimentation that what they thought was wrong.

The first thought is that lube works by keeping lead from sticking to the bore by forming a non-stick barrier, much like Teflon on a skillet. Veral and Dan both seem to still think this, I don't know why. Then, when the magic non-stick stuff fails and lead DOES stick to the bore, we are left wondering why. Then, maybe, eventually, we learn that boolit lube does much more than lubricate, and that lead deposits in a gun barrel get there by means other than abrasion or lack of lubrication. Lube prevents leading by helping to prevent gas-cutting and the resulting particles of lead being blown ahead of the boolit and ironed on the bore as the boolit passes over them. This is easily proven if you take the time to induce gas-cutting, recover boolits, and observe bore condition. Then, once we get boolit fit, alloy and hardness, lube type and viscosity, barrel condition (restrictions, roughness, etc.), and the correct powder, primer, case tension, crimp etc. required for a gentle LAUNCH ironed out and finally cure LEADING, then we find out that our real challenge isn't preventing leading at all, it is ACCURACY. So we hang on to our original theory, we must find the best, slipperiest, be-all end-all whizbang slickum to reduce friction and give is our beloved accuracy, right? But we try it and it doesn't work! We buy every infomercial miracle engine treatment we see, try aircraft lubes, tool and die lubes, EP grease, synthetic formulations and additives of every kind thinking it must be an improvement. Then, once in a while, we load up some of those old boolits we lubed with Lyman Alox back before we knew everything about lube, go to the range, and find it shoots better than anything we were able to concoct. *sigh*. What makes that stuff work? What are it's limits? Why does it have limits and what factors affect that? Again, we find that accuracy is dependent on as many, and often the same, factors as lead fouling, and we start our lube quest anew. Now, we find that lubricity and viscocity are probably the most important factors to accurate function. AMOUNT of lube is also paramount to consistency in rifles, as just the right type and amount is required for consistent, shot-to-shot bore condition without accumulation and the resulting "purge fliers" many of us have experienced. Change one thing slightly, and often lube has to me altered to match the condition. Boolit lube is truly a balancing act, and can be a sort of razor's edge between slickness, stiffness, temperature range, and amount. Much more than a non--stick layer.

Interestingly, and someone here has proven it, most wax/oil based boolit lubes make excellent soldering fluxes, so they certainly don't work by prevention of lead adhesion directly.

Then, a monkey wrench in the lead-free = best accuracy theory. Has the following ever happened to you?: "Wow! I just shot the best group ever with this (insert your experience) gun, but to my horror found it leaded the bore! I went ahead and and continued shooting, getting many more groups just as good, the leading didn't get worse or better, and the gun still shoots like a laser!. Later I cleaned it and it took three boxes of shells to get it shooting straight again, but this contradics everything I thought I new about accuracy, lube, and leading!" So now we start to accept the possiblity that keeping lead fouling to a minimum might not be a requirement to THE most accurate load possible.

This is the short version of the experiences that have brought me to what little understanding that I do have of lube and its function. I learn something every time I go to the range, and add it to my list of observations to be mulled over on rainy days, trying to distill the most important attributes of lube down to just a few things, and dreaming of the perfect subtances that would fill those attributes at any velocity, pressure or temperature. So far, I've tried just about ever commercial concoction out there, and the only thing that meets ALL of my needs is Felix lube, although slight tweaks are necessary to cover the gamut. At least I understand it well enough to know what tweak to make and when.

Now, let's look at bore coatings. I tried using a coat of Bullplate on bone-dry, freshly cleaned and stripped bores, letting it soak overnight and patching out before shooting to give the bore a fighting chance on not leading, what I found is that if the load is good, it does nothing except fling the fouling shot even higher. With undersized boolits nothing I have ever tried for bore coatings or lube will prevent leading from the resulting gas cutting. This leads me to believe that bore coatings won't prevent leading only by the action my making it non-stick, but that there are other factors at work. I aim to discover what they are.

Gear

[AR15-SBR]

Hplug, Have you tried it on shotgun bores? I have been using a very similar product.

The guy that I got my coating from recommended it on shotgun barrels as well. I can clean my shotgun with 2 patches 1 wet and 1 dry...no brushing. When I told the guy I got the coating from he asked my why the wet patch. He said at their shop they just use a couple passes with a dry bore mop or compressed air to clean shotgun barrels.

AR15-SBR

[hplug]

Yes, we have tested with shot guns, and the results were very positive. Once barrel has been treated, after shooting a simple dry patch through the barrel does the trick.

[BABore]

Is this product similar to Ultra Bore Coat?

I have tried that in one gun so far and it seems to work well.

[hplug]

Although I am not familiar with Ultra Bore Coat from otheras I have seen on the market this is what I have seen different. Most coatings are applied and stick to the outside of the inside of the barrel in turns making a very small different in the diameter of the barrel vs. Pb Blocker bonds on the molecular level and actually bonds with the barrel not added anything to the diameter.
Again I am not familiar with Ultra Clean Bore and I do not know how it works. I hope this helps,
H

[.30/30 Guy]

I am on the list to get a bottle. I will be doing the following tests.
#1 - In my .30 calibers I do not get any leading but seem to get some lube purge fliers. I am interested if the treatment will reduce the purge fliers.
#2 - I am getting little lead fouling in my .357 mags. I am interested if I get the same accuracy with the treatment.
#3 - The .44 mag leads on the first shot. Will see if the treatment reduces or eliminate leading.
It my be a couple of weeks before I get any results - the range is snowed in at the present time.

[buyobuyo]

How difficult is it to removed PB Blocker from the bore if one desired to do so? Is it even possible?

[Wayne Smith]

Have you tried it in less than pristine barrels? Something more typical of some of the milsurps we often try, with very mixed results, to get to shoot boolits?

[kelbro]

#3 - The .44 mag leads on the first shot. Will see if the treatment reduces or eliminate leading.


After cleaning your barrel, run a patch wetted with LockEase through and let it dry. That took care of my first shot leaders and also gets my first shot through a cold barrel right in where it's supposed to be.

[lwknight]

I got my PB Blocker in today. I will give it a go in my Ruger SBH that wants to lead up.
It may be a while before I actually get to let off a few rounds. Its 50 miles to the farm and I want to make a day of it so descent weather is required for me.

I can shoot here but my neighbors don't bother me so I won't annoy them with the 44 mag.

[hplug]

How difficult is it to removed PB Blocker from the bore if one desired to do so? Is it even possible?

There are several solvents out there that will do a sufficient job of removing it but truthfully I have never had anyone that wanted to.


Have you tried it in less than pristine barrels? Something more typical of some of the milsurps we often try, with very mixed results, to get to shoot boolits?

Yes I have shot through several "ugly" barrels with great sucess. I am sorry forgive my ignorance I am not sure what the second part of your question. Thanks,
H

[Wayne Smith]

Yes I have shot through several "ugly" barrels with great sucess. I am sorry forgive my ignorance I am not sure what the second part of your question. Thanks,
H

I was mentioning the condition of some of the K98 Mausers, Arisaka 38's, etc that have been fired with corossive priming and the barrels are somewhat pitted.

[hplug]

We have not tried yet, great idea, we need to go get one and give it a shot. Feel real confident that it will work, but we will let you know.







I was mentioning the condition of some of the K98 Mausers, Arisaka 38's, etc that have been fired with corossive priming and the barrels are somewhat pitted.

[hplug]

Thanks to everyone, the 11 samples are in the mail and we look forward to everyones results. If there are any questions or issues do not hesitate to contact me. Thanks again!

[geargnasher]

Got mine yesterday, the tests are on the shooting schedule pending weather.

Gear

[MakeMineA10mm]

Back in the 80s Rice gun products had a line which included a bore coating like the one described here. Got a good review or two, including one from Ross Seyfried, but it seemed to disappear off the market. Wonder if there was a reason for that? Anyone else remember Rice?

[kelbro]

Got my sample the other day. Now I need to find a boolit that actually leads the barrel :) Before I joined this site, I had many.

[NVScouter]

My 41 Mag leads like crazy maybe I'll pick some up today and give it a wack for this afternoon's shoot.

[Wayne Smith]

We have not tried yet, great idea, we need to go get one and give it a shot. Feel real confident that it will work, but we will let you know.

There are lots of guys here that have one like that! Many would probably be willing to prove or disprove it's effectiveness.

[hplug]

True this is the reason I just shipped out 11 bottles for free, I look forward to the results. Thanks for the input
H



There are lots of guys here that have one like that! Many would probably be willing to prove or disprove it's effectiveness.

[NVScouter]

So I just checked 2 local gun shops and Sportsman's Warehouse for this miricle liquid. Nobody has heard of it here in Reno Nevada.

Do you have a retailer here? Cabelas or Scheels?

[hplug]

Geez. No one is carrying pb blocker in reno right now try dillion precision or direct on my website. Thanks
H

[Cadillo]

I went to the website, and it appears interesting, but could only find out that it was $16.95 for whatever size container the manufacturer ships in. I went to Dillon's site and Dillon lists it at $16.95 for 2.5 oz., probably the same small container.

If Dillon is selling it, there is probably some discernable benefit, but at $16.95 plus shipping for 2.5 oz., I'll pass.

I'm curious though to read what the members have to say about its function and how they feel about the cost benefit ratio.

[hplug]

Yes you are right it does come in a 2.5 oz bottle, we are in the works for a larger bottle but the 2.5 oz will last a long long time. We have shot 2500 rounds through a barrel that had one application with no real viseable break down of the product. Pb blocker lasts a long time and as of this point we have not found where it starts to break down. The product is not cheap to manufacture and I also understand $16.95 might be a lot to some but the overall out come is in how long a treatment will last. Thanks
H

[Cadillo]

Yes you are right it does come in a 2.5 oz bottle, we are in the works for a larger bottle but the 2.5 oz will last a long long time. We have shot 2500 rounds through a barrel that had one application with no real viseable break down of the product. Pb blocker lasts a long time and as of this point we have not found where it starts to break down. The product is not cheap to manufacture and I also understand $16.95 might be a lot to some but the overall out come is in how long a treatment will last. Thanks
H

I'm not knocking your product, because I am not aware of its effectiveness, and $16.95 is not a lot for me. I just got back from the range after shooting just over four hundred rounds of centerfire handgun ammo(ain't casting great?), but $16.95 for 2.5 oz. of anything not made of metal is enough to make me raise an eyebrow. Hopefully the guys with the samples will impress me with their reviews.

Good luck with your endeavor!

[.30/30 Guy]

I got my sample bottle yesterday. After reading the instructions I am convinced that this is a lifetime supply for me unless I spill the bottle. Cost per application has got to be only a few cents at most at full price.
Great job on the labeling and instruction sheet.
I need to see if some of the guys with four wheel trucks have gotten the road to the range open so I can give this stuff a good try.

[geargnasher]

I was going to wring out the .30-30 today with this stuff, so I went to the range with the chrongraph to make an accuracy/leading/velocity baseline, came back home and cleaned the gun really well and found what I think is a crack in my chamber, so that one's on hold until I get it looked at. My other .30-30 has a pretty rough bore but shoots quite to my satisfaction and doesn't foul, so I'm leaving well enough alone there.

I did take my Springfield Armory 1911 out to see what it would do today with a well-proven load that DOES NOT lead the bore in this gun, fired about 20 rounds over the chrono and took the barrel out to clean/degrease it completely, then warmed it with a torch until it was uncomfortable to hold and swabbed the PB Blocker through it. I let it cool, ran a clean patch through it and went back to the range to shoot some more groups. I've had fits with subsonic readings from my Chrony so I was just going for an accuracy comparison. I fired 50 rounds split between five targets and the groups went to hell after the first few shots. I got leading in the grooves on BOTH sides of the lands, right in the angle. I went home and cleaned it, found multiple layers of lead/powder/lead/powder fouling layered in the outside edges of the grooves, consistent from throat to muzzle, and it was a real bear to remove.

Needless to say I'm less than impressed with this, I think I gave it a pretty good go with this one gun but I can tell you that the gun/load combination didn't like it at all. After getting it cleaned up I went back out and fired another 10 though it and cleaned, still had some lead depositing in the grooves. I deleaded/fired/deleaded a few times and think I finally have it almost back to where it was, but it still seems to want to "grab" lead in a few spots in the grooves. I never had this problem with this gun before, I could shoot four boxes through it and at most have a speck of lead right on the ends of the lands in the throat where there is some roughness from the chambering job, but it never leaded in the grooves before. Interestingly, through all this testing afer applying the PB Blocker, it doesn't lead there anymore, maybe the lead isn't rubbing of there now but somehow the clean lands are creating gas leaks. I also thought this product might make lead deposits easier to clean, but that is certainly NOT the case with this gun.

I'm not throwing in the towel just yet, one test really doesn't mean much, but I assure you the next test will be done with a gun that leads already, not one that I'm happy with.

Hope the rest of you have better luck, I'm going to try it in one other rifle I have and if it doesn't show some real promise I'm going to offer to PIF for someone else to try if anyone is interested.

Gear

[hplug]

Wow I am shocked and hate to hear this. Of all the tests we have had I have never had such a bad review. It sounds like you applied it correctly and used it correctly and I am just boggled. I am glad that you have not thrown in the towel and appriciate your feedback. Thanks,
H

[geargnasher]

Just to be clear, so nobody gets it wrong as so often happens with post "skimmers", I found the chamber crack BEFORE trying the PB Blocker in the .30-30, I was in fact cleaning and inspecting it prior to application when I discovered the problem.

The .45 experiment begs an answer from you, Hplug: How does PB Blocker affect normal cast boolit loading theory/process? Is there a different approach you use when loading cast boolits that needs to be brought to light? What I mean is what lubes, alloys, pressures, boolit/bore size, pressure curves, boolit designs, et cetera are recommended to use with this product? Since it seemed to have upset a happy balance I want to know why. I noticed little if any mention of these things in your literature, and am under the impression that you product is probably targeted more at the commercial-cast shooter market who want a quick fix rather than taking the time to learn how to solve leading problems "correctly", so maybe it isn't supposed to really matter that much. Can you give some more examples of what DOES work, like load specifics (except exact powder charge weight)?

Gear

[btroj]

Gear, I think it is great that someone like you is doing this evaluation. You did not jump to conclusions based upon 1 gun and 1 load. We need to see more experimentation like this with no bias or preconceived ideas.
I look forward to more results. Good or bad the review you give will be valid and well though out.

Good job Gear. Thanks.

Brad

[hplug]

Gear, I think it is great that someone like you is doing this evaluation. You did not jump to conclusions based upon 1 gun and 1 load. We need to see more experimentation like this with no bias or preconceived ideas.
I look forward to more results. Good or bad the review you give will be valid and well though out.

Good job Gear. Thanks.

Brad

Yes I agree thanks gear! here are a few testimonials from other tests I hope they will provide some of the info you are looking for:

PB Blocker was originally formulated with the Glock pistol in mind. The stock Glock barrel has proven troublesome for many shooters that want to save money by shooting cast bullets instead of jacketed. They have found that the design of the Glock barrel has created some pre-mature leading problems which, in turn, can increase chamber pressures by changing the dimensions of the bore with build-up.



The success of the initial testing of this product was a pleasant surprise and we found that Pb Blocker was not only very effective in Glock barrels but had other uses as well. As one might expect, Pb Blocker was equally effective in other handgun barrels with conventional rifling. We soon found that even if leading occurred, it was much easier to remove from a barrel treated with Pb Blocker. The smoke and carbon fouling on stainless steel revolvers was much easier to clean off when properly treated. The big surprise was when we had customers telling us that they had used it in rifle barrels and were able to shoot lead bullets much faster with minimal or no leading, depending on bullet and barrel quality.



A local shooter fired 1000 hard-cast bullets through a Glock 22 without a cleaning and the amount of lead in the barrel was nearly undetectable. Removal of the lead was a very simple task.



Another fellow from Edgewood, NM found that he could shoot his cast bullets nearly 500 FPS faster in a British .303 when properly treated with Pb Blocker.
Clint Beyer of Beyer Barrels treats all his new barrels with Pb Blocker before shipping.



Initial testing indicates that Pb Blocker also makes removal of plastic wad fouling in shotgun barrels much easier to remove also we haven’t fully tested it yet.



Sincerely,
Cope Reynolds

Host of The Shooting Bench
www.southwestshootingauthority.com


303 British leading tests.

Bullet: Lee: C312 -185-1R Sized to .313" Water quenched

Lead for bullets: Wheel Weight+ Silver solder l0 parts WW to 2 parts solder Brinell scale of @ 22

Brass: Winchester Western multi- fired, neck sized using Lee Collet neck sizing die Part #90717

Powder Hornady Varget

Lube: Personal lube of 50% beeswax, 50% Alox stick

Hornady gas check .30 caliber

Rifle: British Lee Enfield No4 Mk2. Completely rebuilt by Enfield. New barrel. Action Redfield 3X9

scope

Test date: 17 March 2010

Misc items, Bronze brush, Lewis Lead Remover, Hoppes # 9 solvent

Chronograph: Shootings Chrony Fl

Overall bullet length: 2.972"

Pb Blocker



Results.

My standard plinking load is 26.0grains of Varget which gives me and average velocity of 1650 fps. Using this load gives me acceptable accuracy and minimal leading. On average I can shoot about 100 rounds before leading becomes an issue. At 50 rounds this loads leaves barely noticeable leading My accurate load for this bullet is 29 .7 grains of Varget which gives me sub minute of angle (T .13" at 200 yards off of sand bags) with a velocity average of l780fps +/- 20fos. Using this load I can fire @ 60-70 rounds before leading becomes an issue.



Since these bullets are cast lead the OAL is a bit shorter than the standard .303 jacketed round. My rifle likes an OAL of 2.972" The standard length I use for I 80 grain Sierra SPT is 3.078. OAL. For the testing I used the MAX load for my.303 of 35.0 grains of Varget and the Lee C312 -185-1R bullet sized and lubed as above. Through my rifle, fired off of sand bags I got an average velocity of 2176 fps +l- 55 fps. I fired 50 rounds. After every 10 rounds, I pulled the bolt and using a bore light inspected the chamber throat and bore for leading. Leading was noticeable after 20 rounds and at 50 was very heavy.

I then thoroughly cleaned the bore of the rifle using first Hoppes #9 and abronze brush, then using Lewis Lead Remover and the Hoppes Solvent. No lead was visible in the chamber throat or the bore. I then removed the fore stock of my Enfield and using a fish tail attachment on a propane torch I heated the barrel to @ 140 degrees. Temp was measured with a "meat" Thermometer in the muzzle and then chamber. I then applied the "Pb Blocker” and let the barrel cool to ambient air temperature @ 45 deg F (About an hour).



I then shot 50 rounds of my accurate load (the 1780 fps round) After every 10 rounds I checked the bore and chamber for leading. None was found. I then shot 50 rounds of my max load and checked the chamber again after every 10 rounds. After 50 rounds I checked the bore and to my surprise the amount of leading was about equal to, maybe a bit less than my plinking load! Accuracy suffered, but this was due to driving the bullet 500 fps faster than my accurate load. This stuff is amazing! I just need to design a spitzer lead bullet for my .303 to take advantage of this stuff.

Folks do not believe that I can push a-WW lead bullet to jacketed speeds and not coat my barrel with lead. With the sample jar I have ione mine and my wifes Glocks G2l and Gl9, My Yugo SKS, and my M44 Moisin Nagant. Plus my 1858 Pietta Remington revolver converted to .45 Long Colt. I can't wait to try out the SKS and see if this cuts down on the leading on the gas port and barrel. I cast bullets for ALL my firearms from a 1833 Replica Pennsylvania long rifle to Enfield and Mosing Nagants. I am also going to try it in my shotgun rifled barrel since I cast slugs for it.

Whatever this stuff is, it is GREAT and you need to promote the hell out of it.

Chuck Hudson

[geargnasher]

Thanks for the quick response, Hplug! I read those tests on your website, couldn't think of anything I was really doing differently here, just wanted to make sure there wasn't some nuance I was overlooking. Seems pretty simple, strip the bore, warm it up good to expand the pores, swab on the product and allow it to soak in, wipe it out but leave a slight film, go shooting.

In the .45 ACP I'm using air-cooled wheel weights +1.5% tin at 14.4 bhn with an Accurate Mold #45-230L sized .4525" and lubed with Felix lube, 4.7 grains of Hodgdon Titegroup, CCI300 primers, S&B 2f brass, custom .451" expander spud that expands .045" below the boolti base, and just enough crimp to iron out the bellmouth. Pulled boolits measure .4523-4", groove diameter is .451" on this gun, and it shoots 3" 14-shot groups at 15 yards from bags all day (yeah, it's a stock 1911A1 rattletrap, but it's a consistent rattletrap with this load!). I don't know if any of this info helps or not, but if you see anything here that won't work with PB Blocker.

My original plan was to do an accuracy comparison before and after and see if I can push the "leading threshold" a bit, I think it's time to try this stuff on the .45/90! I already have a very accurate smokeless load that's been wrung out pretty well, but it still leads from halfway down the barrel to the muzzle. If it weren't such a pain to clean the lead out I wouldn't worry about it, the velocity and accuracy are plenty satisfactory even badly fouled, but I think now it might be a great candidate for PB Blocker. Stay tuned.

Gear

[hplug]

Thanks again Gear,
Let me see if I can get one of my testers to help out here as some of this is over my head. Thanks for all your work,
H

[HammerMTB]

I spent some time this evening getting my first 2 tests ready. Thoroughly cleaned 2 bbls from my Glock 20. One is the stock bbl. It has not had a leading problem, but if I shoot a 200 round match, it will show a tiny bit of lead in it.
The other bbl is an aftermarket ballard rifled bbl. It had been just like the stock bbl until recently. For reasons yet unknown to me, it started leading after a short session of 60-70 rounds. The ammo used is all of the same "lot" if you will, at times loaded on different days, but all to the same spec load, and fairly consistent across the chrono. [smilie=w:
Both shine like the sun with fresh PBblocker in them.
If weather and time allow, I'll get to the pit tomorrow. :Fire:

Edit 1-31-11 no time to shoot today, had to stay with a recuperating wife at home. Next opening, the weekend.

[NVScouter]

13 bottles sent out and only 1 review and 1 ready to test.

As the saying goes less QQ more PEW PEW :Fire:

What are the main ingredients of this stuff and how about a MSDS please.

[hplug]

I sent out 11 bottles and hope to see some more reviews and I am sure they will be coming. I can provide an MSDS anytime please send me some contact info and I will forward it. THanks,
H

[geargnasher]

13 bottles sent out and only 1 review and 1 ready to test.

As the saying goes less QQ more PEW PEW :Fire:

What are the main ingredients of this stuff and how about a MSDS please.

You gonna help us do this, or sit on the sidelines and bitch? Those of us trying to do valid testing between winter storms will be freely sharing any valid information and test results that we have as we can get it, at no cost to you. Stay tuned.

Gear

[hplug]

Thanks Gear
Obviously there have been some good reviews and this product dies work maybe it is just finding the right nitch. I am trying to be as open as possible and greatly enjoy all the work from the board members. Thanks again
H


You gonna help us do this, or sit on the sidelines and bitch? Those of us trying to do valid testing between winter storms will be freely sharing any valid information and test results that we have as we can get it, at no cost to you. Stay tuned.

Gear

[NVScouter]

You gonna help us do this, or sit on the sidelines and bitch? Those of us trying to do valid testing between winter storms will be freely sharing any valid information and test results that we have as we can get it, at no cost to you. Stay tuned.

Gear

Pass a bottle my way and sure! With results as they are I wont be paying to trial somebody's product at this point. As the sole result poster I guess you have earned the right to be cranky :p

MSDS?

HAve you tried this on the boolits themselves as a lube?

[btroj]

I can wait for valid test results. With winter upon us I understand that this is not a great time of year for testing anything other than your ability to handle cold.
I have to give hplug kudos for sending samples out for testing. He is asking group of pretty serious cast shooters to test his product. He will not be given anything, his product has to earn it way. Not many companies would be willing to offer up a product for this kind of open, not under company control testing and reporting. This is no small leap of faith and I think plug deserves credit for this.

If you have any samples left I would be interested. I have a few guns that lead with ine load but not another. I would be interested to see if your product makes a difference in these situations. I can promise that I will go into this endevor with eyes and mind open. Gear has shown the way this should be done and I would follow his model of fair testing.

Brad

[Harter66]

I've a bottle and have treated a Feg HP9 ,High Power clone,that has had some leading issues with all of my best efforts. I will be testing on the weekend and posting accordingly . I also will try in coming weeks with a new to me sks and a Savage 06' .


Scouter my offer stands, I'm in Reno or Carson about every weekend.

[NVScouter]

I've a bottle and have treated a Feg HP9 ,High Power clone,that has had some leading issues with all of my best efforts. I will be testing on the weekend and posting accordingly . I also will try in coming weeks with a new to me sks and a Savage 06' .


Scouter my offer stands, I'm in Reno or Carson about every weekend.

Lets meet up then. Say Red's395 for lunch and a beer?

[Harter66]

Tried Reds a while back seemed wanting.
I think Saturday might work will have to confirm w/SWMBO and my airplane guy. Qs perhaps?

[NVScouter]

Sure Text me later in the week.

[45nut]

I can wait for valid test results. With winter upon us I understand that this is not a great time of year for testing anything other than your ability to handle cold.
I have to give hplug kudos for sending samples out for testing. He is asking group of pretty serious cast shooters to test his product. He will not be given anything, his product has to earn it way. Not many companies would be willing to offer up a product for this kind of open, not under company control testing and reporting. This is no small leap of faith and I think plug deserves credit for this.

If you have any samples left I would be interested. I have a few guns that lead with ine load but not another. I would be interested to see if your product makes a difference in these situations. I can promise that I will go into this endevor with eyes and mind open. Gear has shown the way this should be done and I would follow his model of fair testing.

Brad

Ditto. :cbpour:

[Cadillo]

Samples went to the wrong locales. Guess we'll have to wait for springtime to get a verdict. Too bad! I hear you all are about to receive another round of frigid weather over the next few days!

Heating Oil? Oh Yeah! That's what the little woman does before my back rub.

Natural Gas? Oh Yeah! That's what I've been getting after eating Mexican food any time since my fifty-fifth birthday.

Propane? Oh Yeah! That's what I use to heat my smelting and casting pots.

Electricity? Oh Yeah! Costs plenty in the summer, but less that Beer this time of year.


A Blizzard here means 32 degrees for more than five hours and advance warnings issued over the radio, television, newspaper etc. Pretty cool outside now, down to 69 degrees with a breeze from the north. Long sleeves and a windbreaker for me to go outside.

Day before yesterday got up to 91 for while. Good and proper weather for shooting, casting, smelting, yardwork, etc.

I wouldn't want to even visit the Great White North. I can't understand how it ever got inhabited in the first place!

Stay warm! :kidding:

[geargnasher]

Cadillo, bundle up, it's headed your way, and QUICK. High was 24 here today, it's 15 right now, who knows how cold the wind is making it. I'm only about 7 hours NN/W of you. Funny thing is it was a balmy lower 60s here until about 2:00AM. I think yesterday afternoon was about 75.

Gear

[NVScouter]

Samples went to the wrong locales. Guess we'll have to wait for springtime to get a verdict. Too bad! I hear you all are about to receive another round of frigid weather over the next few days!

Heating Oil? Oh Yeah! That's what the little woman does before my back rub.

Natural Gas? Oh Yeah! That's what I've been getting after eating Mexican food any time since my fifty-fifth birthday.

Propane? Oh Yeah! That's what I use to heat my smelting and casting pots.

Electricity? Oh Yeah! Costs plenty in the summer, but less that Beer this time of year.


A Blizzard here means 32 degrees for more than five hours and advance warnings issued over the radio, television, newspaper etc. Pretty cool outside now, down to 69 degrees with a breeze from the north. Long sleeves and a windbreaker for me to go outside.

Day before yesterday got up to 91 for while. Good and proper weather for shooting, casting, smelting, yardwork, etc.

I wouldn't want to even visit the Great White North. I can't understand how it ever got inhabited in the first place!

Stay warm! :kidding:

Wow I'm about 42* Latitude and live at 6K feet. It was 61 this weekend [smilie=l: Last February I had to work in Alaska and it was still T-shirt weather however most of the time.

Now when stationed in Texas in the summer this Mountain boy doesnt do well in the heat.

[hplug]

negitive 6 degrees here today even my dogs are huddled inside
H

[kelbro]

I think we got one of our 5 days of winter today. Hit 32 this morning. Should be back in the 70s by Saturday though.

[Desertscout]

Hello guys. First post here. My name is Cope Reynolds and I own Southwest Shooting Authority in Luna, NM. We did all of the initial testing for Pb Blocker and it has shown tremendous promise. As I have told everyone that I talk to about it, there is such a tremendous disparity in barrel quality, lead quality and and hardness, velocities and other factors that we have little hope of being able to satisfy every single cast bullet shooter out there. With that being said, we have seen phenomenal results using Pb Blocker in both rifle and handgun and have also experienced good results in preventing plastic-fouling in shotgun barrels.
Another benefit of Pb Blocker is the ease of cleaning heavy powder-fouling from receivers and cylinder faces. We all know how difficult that black build-up on the face of a stainless steel revolver cylinder can be to get off but if the gun is cleaned thoroughly and Pb Blocker is applied in the same manner that we apply it to barrels, you'll find that it comes off very easily.
As far as it being $16.95? Come on guys! Jeez! I saw someone above invite another poster for a beer. We all spend a hell of a lot more than that doing things that are not even good for us and call it fun. A 3-oz bottle of this stuff will last most for several months and man for 1 year or two. It's not like your drinking it or anything.
I see so many here waiting to see what results the guys that got the free samples are getting and then complaining because the results are not coming in fast enough. Kinda reminds me of the direction our whole country is going...


www.southwestshootingauthority.com

[NVScouter]

! I saw someone above invite another poster for a beer. We all spend a hell of a lot more than that doing things that are not even good for us and call it fun.

Kinda reminds me of the direction our whole country is going...


www.southwestshootingauthority.com


True and if I spent $17 everytime an internet somebody came along I would be out beer money. Not to mention all the Nigerian Princes I would cash cashier's checks for!

Welcome to the board Cope.

So the whole country is going to pot because we want testing on a product before throwing money at the company? The only complaints I have are no MSDS yet, and that hplug graciously sent out 11 bottles and only one of those people has posted range results.

[hplug]

NVScouter
As stated before I said I would supply an MSDS to anyone who wants it but I will NOT post it on a public forum call me crazy. As I stated before give me some contact info and I will send it. I don't think Cope's comment about the country has anything to do with sending my company money and as you can see from this thread I have not attempted to SELL you anything I made what I believe is a very fair offer by supplying 10 free bottles to whomever wanted to try it and I even threw in a bonus bottle. I do not have control of when someone is going to test it nor when they will have time. Maybe you can test it from your back window but plenty of people here have to drive to a range or another location, if you havent noticed there has been some weather across the nation and I know I would not be shooting in 6 degrees unless I really needed to. The first bottles went out about 2 weeks ago and some did not go out until last week so why don't you give some people a break and understand their life does not revolve around keeping you posted on some forum. I am very thankful for the people here who are willing to try it and for the ones that have but I also do not have outrageous expectations that they shoot with it the second they recieve it
H

[Cadillo]

Cadillo, bundle up, it's headed your way, and QUICK. High was 24 here today, it's 15 right now, who knows how cold the wind is making it. I'm only about 7 hours NN/W of you. Funny thing is it was a balmy lower 60s here until about 2:00AM. I think yesterday afternoon was about 75.

Gear

I was outside for just a moment a few minutes ago to move my truck and the thermometer said 35 degrees at midday! They are predicting low 20's tonight with sleet possible. I'll probably lose my two orange trees tonight. I finally got a good crop of Blood Oranges, but looks like that may be all over. Takes several years to get them to put out an appreciable amount.

!@#$%^

I'll never fathom how people live up north. Give me 100 F every day!

Global warming???

Gimme Some! :groner:

[NVScouter]

PM Sent hplug!

Hopefuly I'll get some this weekend and see if I can do better about posting range results.

[hplug]

MSDS was sent to your email.
Thanks

[Desertscout]

I was outside for just a moment a few minutes ago to move my truck and the thermometer said 35 degrees at midday! They are predicting low 20's tonight with sleet possible. I'll probably lose my two orange trees tonight. I finally got a good crop of Blood Oranges, but looks like that may be all over. Takes several years to get them to put out an appreciable amount.

!@#$%^

I'll never fathom how people live up north. Give me 100 F every day!

Global warming???

Gimme Some! :groner:
Cadillo, I'm guessin' that you wouldn't have cared anything about visiting us around New Years eve. Our low was about 35 below zero. Thanks to global warming, it's warming up nicely here now. It got up to 17 earlier today but is down to 13 now.

Oh, and I forgot to mention. Our oranges are not doing well either! LOL

[Desertscout]

True and if I spent $17 everytime an internet somebody came along I would be out beer money. Not to mention all the Nigerian Princes I would cash cashier's checks for!

Welcome to the board Cope.

So the whole country is going to pot because we want testing on a product before throwing money at the company? The only complaints I have are no MSDS yet, and that hplug graciously sent out 11 bottles and only one of those people has posted range results.
Thanks for the welcome scouter. Let me clarify a bit. I don't think spending $17 on every internet somebody that comes along was ever an issue. The issue is spending $17 on something that a fellow shooter that doesn't hide behind a screen name recommends that has the potential to make your life easier and maybe a little more enjoyable at times. However, I can certainly understand not want to finance a Nigerian king that hides behind the monitor!

And no, the country is not going to pot over testing this product but it IS going to pot partly because we all have to wait for someone else to do something.

Cheers!

[Harter66]

In my defense I offered to split the bottle with scouter.

I'm just a po' country desert rat prone to share what comes my way . If a fella wants to meet in a pubic place and share a couple of brews and a bottle of the next great"wonder coat",no offense intended,then what the heck .frankley if we all got out of our ruts and shells and had a beer/pop/glass of water with the neighbor more often we might not be ,as my artist daughter says "where are we going and why are we in a hand basket".

[btroj]

Someone at some point had to test and BUY Bullplate. It is a product that does amazing things. When I first hears of it I tought it was BS. Boy was I wrong. Thankfully people did purchase, use, and report on Bullplate. The casting world is better for the work of these early users.

Can anyone here state with certainty that this product may not be as good as the manufacturer says? We need to give this stuff a fair, and critical, test.

Brad

[skeettx]

This is fun reading

Really looking forward to the tests in rifles with greater velocity (say 2500 fps) in bores over 28 caliber.

Enjoy the day
Mike

[Cadillo]

Cadillo, I'm guessin' that you wouldn't have cared anything about visiting us around New Years eve. Our low was about 35 below zero. Thanks to global warming, it's warming up nicely here now. It got up to 17 earlier today but is down to 13 now.

Oh, and I forgot to mention. Our oranges are not doing well either! LOL

I figured that your oranges would be nice and cozy on the grocer's produce shelf, or magnetically stuck to your refrigerator's door.

I once had to drive a pickup and trailor to Chicago two weeks before Christmas. I ran the heater full blast all the way up and back, and nearly froze to death.

When I got to Chicago the folks I had to see had removed the batteries from their three vehicles and had them in the kitchen so they wouldn't freeze or at least get so cold they wouldn't work. They told me that when it gets really cold, they drain the oil and bring it inside at night to keep it warm, so that they can pour it back into the motors and get them cranked the following morning. I didn't see the oil thing, but that's what they said.

I would not live like that if not incarcerated in that environment.

Since that trip, I've never been north of Dallas, and I only go there in the spring, summer or early fall.

Good thing that Cowboy's Stadium has a roof, so all those folks can enjoy the game.

[Cadillo]

Someone at some point had to test and BUY Bullplate. It is a product that does amazing things. When I first hears of it I tought it was BS. Boy was I wrong. Thankfully people did purchase, use, and report on Bullplate. The casting world is better for the work of these early users.

Can anyone here state with certainty that this product may not be as good as the manufacturer says? We need to give this stuff a fair, and critical, test. Brad

The man sent out samples for just that purpose. Eventually someone will, report, provided they don't freeze to death first, and the plan will have run its course.

I buy and use Bull Plate too. But, being the kind of guy that I am, I bought it not because the seller said it's good, but because his customers said it's good.

That's just the way some of us roll!

[pjh421]

Anyone here use Cerama-coat? Barsness said it was good stuff in Handloader. I never bothered but this kind of thing is certainly interesting.

Paul

[geargnasher]

For the record, I'm not 'hiding behind' a screen name. If you want to know who I am, ASK. Not that the knowledge will make any difference. I figure the less my name wanders around on the internet, the better, THAT's the reason for using a 'handle'.

Gear

[Desertscout]

My apologies geargnasher. I don't know what made you think I was talking about you but I wasn't. I wasn't talking about anyone on this board. I that I was fairly clear when I said , "that a fellow shooter that doesn't hide behind a screen name". Obviously I was talking about myself and implying that I had nothing to hide by stating my name in my first post.
nvscouter made reference to financing Nigerian princes and I simply said that I understand not wanting to do that. I made no implication towards any member of the board.

[lwknight]

I got my sample if the PB Blocker in and have not busted a cap in several weeks and the way it looks , it will be several more weeks before I can get to trying it out.
It may be possible that I don't hate cold more than anyone else but no one else hates cold more than I do either.
Besides all that I got no running water , barely enough heat and 4 days of ice everywhere. As soon as weather allows I have some huge trees to get cut out of my garden area so I can eat fresh home grown vegetables later this year.

I will get a good bit of shooting time in this spring for sure but right now , it just aint happening.

[Desertscout]

Sounds like you got a plate full, LW! It was 16 below here last night so I got up at 0400 to check everything just to make sure WE still had running water this morning!

[405]

Desertscout,
Hope that Luna country is treating you OK. Different area for sure- between "Reverse" NM and "Alpen-glo" AZ :). First time I was there was 44 years ago this week-- on horseback chasing hounds in the canyons NW of Luna along the state line. Last time I was there was a few years ago but before the area was blessed with over-sized coyotes. Retired AZ and Navajo possum cops and I camped out on that BIG flat top mountain north of Alpine-- Escudilla I believe. Good luck down there.

[Desertscout]

Thanks 405! I love it down here. My Dad was born not far from here and my pioneer heritage runs deep here so I've just come home, that's all.
If you ever get down here again, give us a holler! 866-886-8753 or holler at Doublejack on channel 19.

[Dannix]

Subscribed. I'll be watching for test results -- once the weather warms up enough for you guys.

Those claiming climate change are right. It wasn't anywhere near this temperature six months ago.

[geargnasher]

My apologies geargnasher. I don't know what made you think I was talking about you but I wasn't. I wasn't talking about anyone on this board. I that I was fairly clear when I said , "that a fellow shooter that doesn't hide behind a screen name". Obviously I was talking about myself and implying that I had nothing to hide by stating my name in my first post.
nvscouter made reference to financing Nigerian princes and I simply said that I understand not wanting to do that. I made no implication towards any member of the board.

Hey, you're right, I'm sorry. I don't know what made me think that, either. I'm going to say it's the allergy medication, that's my story and I'm sticking to it [smilie=1:. But that's why the moniker, anyhow.

BTW you really nailed it when you said the problem with this country is everyone sitting around waiting for someone else to do something. Right now I'm sitting around waiting for the ice storm to end! (you could say I'm waiting for Al Gore to thaw us out!)

Gear

[Desertscout]

Hey, you're right, I'm sorry. I don't know what made me think that, either. I'm going to say it's the allergy medication, that's my story and I'm sticking to it [smilie=1:. But that's why the moniker, anyhow.

BTW you really nailed it when you said the problem with this country is everyone sitting around waiting for someone else to do something. Right now I'm sitting around waiting for the ice storm to end! (you could say I'm waiting for Al Gore to thaw us out!)

Gear
No sweat, my friend. It is often difficult to decipher what someone means when you can't see their eyes or hear the tone of their voice. We are all guilty of jumping the gun, so to speak, at times.

[NVScouter]

My apologies geargnasher. I don't know what made you think I was talking about you but I wasn't. I wasn't talking about anyone on this board. I that I was fairly clear when I said , "that a fellow shooter that doesn't hide behind a screen name". Obviously I was talking about myself and implying that I had nothing to hide by stating my name in my first post.
nvscouter made reference to financing Nigerian princes and I simply said that I understand not wanting to do that. I made no implication towards any member of the board.

You can attack me but leave my beer money out of it :mrgreen:

I'm getting a bit of it tonight and have a 223, 303, 300WBY, 45LC ready to go for cast. I will be running a couple Dry, Lubed w/PBblocker, PB+my lube.

I also have a 12 and 20 GA ready to go. The 20 gets really dirty with slugs so I have 20 ready for that.

I have scrubbed them clean just need to apply the product and go shoot. I will also do around 10 unlubed as cast in the 223 with the PBlocker on them from tonight. It was requested to try some 2500fps+ stuff so I'll make up a couple 223s that meet that criteria.

I'm going to be expending about $100 in ammo tomorrow to test this product. Putting my money where my mouth is so to speek.

At the end I will also try some jacketed rounds for comparison.

[geargnasher]

NV, could you ellaborate on the "dry, lubed with pb blocker, pb+my lube" part? Are you going to try unlubed boolits and also try mixing the PB blocker with your boolit lube?

Good news here is that the weather is breaking, and that my Marlin ain't broke, just some weird scratches from the chambering reamer that I never noticed before, so back together it goes for round two of the testing, this time WITH PB Blocker.

Gear

[NVScouter]

NV, could you ellaborate on the "dry, lubed with pb blocker, pb+my lube" part? Are you going to try unlubed boolits and also try mixing the PB blocker with your boolit lube?

Good news here is that the weather is breaking, and that my Marlin ain't broke, just some weird scratches from the chambering reamer that I never noticed before, so back together it goes for round two of the testing, this time WITH PB Blocker.

Gear

Sure.

I wont mix the PB into my lube FYI. Not knowing 30% of the ingredients I'll just follow PB's instructions on that.

I would like to do 10 rounds with unlubed boolits on the coated bore basicly as a control.

Then clean and do 10 more with boolits and bore coated with PB Blocker.

Clean and follow up with 10 more with my lube or LLA on them to see if my business as usual is interupted. Since I already don't really lead these days I'm trying to lead.

Then I'll try a couple at 2500fps or so and see if anything changes.

This should give me extremes on the PB Blocker effects.
The only two guns that I have that really lead are my 303 and my Dad's 41 mag but that went with him to AZ today so I wont be able to test that one anytime soon. :violin:

[geargnasher]

Thanks for ellaborating, that sounds like quite a torture test!

Gear

[geargnasher]

Just back from the range, boy that hot coffee Mrs. Geargnasher made is GOOD!

Mr. Target and Mr. Rifle Barrel also tell an interesting tale, here's the dope from the test this evening.

50 yards, Marlin 336 MicroGroove .30-30, open sights, series of 5-shot groups, same as last time except the temp was 38 degF, calm, and clear, last test was 50 degF, calm and clear.

RD 311-165-RF Plain Base, air-cooled clip-on wheel-weights with a pinch of tin, two weeks old, 13.4 bhn, sized .311", lubed with Felix lube.

15 grains of RX7, WLR primers, neck-sized Winchester brass with .0015" neck tension, light roll crimp in groove.

Groups without PB Blocker, from seasoned barrel, 1"X1/4" (on center) vertical strings, fired four groups of five, all identical. Average velocity was 1,462 fps, standard deviation was 7fps (go figure that one out with the stringing). Somehow I forgot to log ES. After 20 shots the barrel had the usual grey antimony wash that patched right out with some Ed's Red, along with black powder fouling. This load had a tendency to streak a little lead in the grooves, visible after cleaning with solvent and a patch, not bad, but still needed some elbow grease to remove.

Now, after treating with PB Blocker, I shoot the same load, four groups of five again, too little light for the chronograph, though. I checked the bore after the first shot by shining a light in the muzzle, still looked like it hadn't been fired. Hmmmph. Finished the first group, looked again, still see the bare metal. I firelapped this gun a while back due to past neglect that left some rusty spots and pits, and I can still see the bare steel where the lapping compound did its work. The target said 3/4" ROUND group. Hmmph again. I laid down three more round groups, blew the last one out to 1" with a flier, but the other three all were right at 3/4". The bore at the muzzle still looks like it hasn't been fired, no visible fouling, I can still see the bare metal, and I don't see the usual lead streaks.

So I went home, had the aforementioned coffee, and got to cleaning. First dry patch came out jet black, but not nearly as much goop as this load left before. A couple of solvent/dry/solvent/dry cycles and it's completely clean, and no lead streaks anywhere, no rough spots at all. I know this bore very, very well and I can tell by feel that there's no lead fouling in there at all. Hmmph! Now I'm starting to grin.

The only difference I feel is noteworthy is the boolits are five days older (but almost exactly the same BHN), and it was 20 degrees colder today than in the last test with this load. And of course the PB Blocker.

I must say again that this is just one gun, one test, one load, and doesn't prove much, but I'll tell you that after treating with PB Blocker this gun started shooting round groups, smaller groups, had MUCH less powder fouling, ZERO antimony wash, and ZERO lead fouling compared to the same load shot last Sunday. I would love to have had the exterior ballistic numbers, too, but I'll get those another time. Needless to say I'm impressed and encouraged.

More to come...

Gear

[btroj]

How clean did you have the barrel before applying the PB Blocker? Any more than just a regular solvent cleaning?
How dis you heat the barrel after application? How long did you let the barrel sit before the test?
Just wondering. I might have to bite the bullet and buy a bottle to try. Not too expensive to give it a shot.
Thanks for an insightful test. I will be interested to hear what future tests show.

Brad

[geargnasher]

I cleaned the barrel about as well as I possibly could, meaning a manual delead with bronze wool wrapped around a bronze brush, a quick polish with steel wool wrapped around a different bronze brush, a good soak with Ed's followed by scrubbing with a Nylon brush and Ed's, patch until dry, warm in front of the wood stove until warm to the touch, then bore mop with brake cleaner, spray barrel out with brake cleaner, mop and patch again, rinse barrel with brake cleaner and blow dry with compressed air. It takes all that to get the "seasoning" out of the pits and pores. After cleaning, I warmed the barrel up again by the stove and swabbed PB Blocker through it with a clean, saturated patch. I let it sit a few minutes by the stove again and ran the soaked patch through a few more times. Another few minutes by the stove and I put one dry patch though the bore followed by a clean patch with a smear of Bullplate on it (my standard procedure for reducing initial leading from a "dry" bore) followed by another dry patch and a dry-mopping of the chamber. Pretty much went straight to the range after that.

Gear

[btroj]

Bull plate in the bore? Never thought of that.

Thanks, that was a pretty thorough cleaning.

Brad

[btroj]

Bull plate in the bore? Never thought of that.

Thanks, that was a pretty thorough cleaning.

Brad

[Harter66]

I test fired in my FEG HP-9 . The load is W-W brass ,CCI standard small pistol,4.0 gr Unique and a LEE 356-124TLTC ,lubed with an added wax variant of the Barry Darr lube. Boolits weigh 133gr and are pencil tested @15bhn being water dropped range scrape cast. I separate js,their cast, my cast and slugs/MLballs.

The bbl was scoured with Birchwood Casey and 4 O wool then a Brake clean wash heated to "keep it moving" hot and wet swabbed cooled for 30 min and dryed . The bbl rested for 5 days.

This load in the past has leaded from bad to "where'd the grooves go" in 50 rounds.
The weather was 30* 35%humidity.
25 rounds were fired 5 slow in a well aimed 15 second string then 5 battery point fast and 5 as the 1st 5.
Accuracy was the normal 6"-8" at 50 paces and 12" at 15 yd slow/fast respectively.

The bbl showed only mild leading and although it didn't clean up with just a brush it was about 95% clear with oiled wool. However, as noted by another tester here the land shoulders are stuck fast.

I will retreat and repeat the test. I've brass for the sks and will shoot a base line soon.

[XWrench3]

delete

[troy_mclure]

im thinking of picking up a bottle of this stuff and joining the testing fun! lol.

ive got everything from .223 to .429.

[hplug]

Glad to hear we are seeing some good results, all of these things take time and I believe PB blocker might not be the miracle juice we would all love to see but it looks to have some positive aspects and might just have a nitch. Thanks Gear for such a thorough test and I look forward to all results.

FYI I have had several requests to send out more samples but I just can't send anymore out although I wish I could just send everyone a bottle of course it does cost me a pretty penny to produce this stuff. Thanks again to all of you who have taken me up on this offer.
H

[PatMarlin]

Bull Plate in the bore- Works.

Shissh- don't tell everybody... :mrgreen:

[HammerMTB]

I went to the pit today to see what might come of coating the bore of 2 Glock bbls with PBBlocker.
The first one is a stock Glock 20 bbl with its polygonal rifling. It was always a lead-free shooter, so I expected no real change today.
To my surprise, it leaded. It was not severe, but it was present. It was hard to judge at the range, as looking down the bore doesn't really tell the whole story. What is powder residue, and what is lead?
So I put a new brass screen on my Lewis Lead remover. First a quick scrub with Hoppe's followed by a clean patch. Nothing from either of those, but powder residue.
Then the Lewis. First pass came out with significant amounts of lead on the new screen. I have 3X and 8X binocular loupes to view, so looked at it real close.I scraped off the lead that would easily drop from the screen, and made another pass. I got more lead. I repeated this until the bore was bright. It took 2 more passes to get it all. I did not expect this. I will say that after it was clean, the bore was bright like before the range day, and appeared to still have an oily coating I interpreted to be PBBlocker.
The next bbl was an aftermarket bbl for the same gun. It is ballard rifled, and tho it has seen some matches of 2-300 rounds and had little leading, the last time I took it out it leaded a lot in 60-70 rounds. I was hoping PBBlocker would help resolve that.
It did not. I got the same amount of leading from today's session that I did before applying PBBlocker.
I am not giving up. There must be more to this.
I have a premium rifle bbl coming this month. It is a 3-land polygonal. After break-in and some initial data to establish what this bbl will do untreated, I may treat it to see if there is a measurable change in performance.
I have some other tests I can do going forward, too, but they will take some time to establish solid data on performance before bbl coating.
Thanks to hplug for "puttin' it out there" and I say hang in there, buddy, the fat lady hasn't sung yet.

[geargnasher]

Test #3: Going beyond the limits.

I did a workup of the RX7 in the Marlin again today with the same, plain-based boolits from the last test. Ten at 15 grains, ten at 16 grains, and ten more at 17 grains. I swabbed out the barrel with Ed's and recoated with PB Blocker just to be sure it was a fair test.

1. Set up the Chrony to get the velocity of the 15 grain load to compare to the data from the same load in the gun before treatment. Average velocity was 1389 for five shots, group wes comparable to test #2, and the bore stayed nice and clean of lead and antimony wash.

2. Up to 16 grains, too much for the alloy. Bore looked exactly like it did with the 15 grain load before PB Blocker treatment, a light antimony wash and some lead streaks visible in the muzzle end. Velocity average was 1503 for five, with the last shot at 1520, and that shot left the worst streak. I patched out with a dry patch and pushed a few slivers of lead out, the strength of the alloy has been exceeded here.

3. I went ahead and fired the ten at 17 grains more for the chrony than anything, came up with 1574 average velocity, with an ES of only 9 (best of all the strings I checked), but it sprayed boolits all over the target, 7" group at 50 yards, a good argument for those who have discovered that low ES and SD numbers aren't always the Holy Grail of the accuracy quest.

4. Without cleaning, I fired the last five at 16 grains, 1339 average velocity, nice tight 7/8" round group, terrible leading still.

5. The last five at 15 grains went into 3/4" at 50 at an average of 1351 fps. How it could be higher than the previous string at 16 grains is a mystery to me, but the bore is pretty much solid lead by now. Interestingly, this group was one of the best through all the tests, goes to show that leading isn't always an accuracy killer.

So I went home to see how tough it was going to be to get my barrel clean again. I hate to say it, but this particular gun has never been as difficult to clean as this time. The lead was thick in the grooves, long slivers would come out with a tight patch, but most of it was stuck good. I scrubbed it for a full half-hour with bronze wool, steel wool, and Chore Boy patches, finally gave up and degreased it, then set it up with the FOIII. After 20 minutes with no green light I cleaned the rod and tried again. Finally got a green light on the third cleaning, but still had grey fouling in the grooves, the FOIII won't touch antimony or tin, so I figured that's what was left. I poured out the lead remover solution and filled the barrel with Kroil, it's still soaking.

The only thing I can conclude at this point is that the PB Blocker made a decent load work better, eliminated antimony wash, and dramatically reduced powder residue, but when things go south the PB Blocker puts it on a rocket sled. I see no real improvement in velocity, in fact the treated barrel produced an average of 73 fewer fps with the 15 grain load, and when the lead does stick at higher velocities, it sticks with a vengeance. At least I know one combination that worked quite well using the PB Blocker, but so far I'm unable to verify the claims of the manufacturer:

"With the application of Pb Blocker your cleaning time will also be dramatically less, and in most cases you cleaning turns to a dry swab and your done.

Pb Blocker will work in all types of firearms.

With Pb Blocker you can shoot hotter loads with out risking fouling."

I see this product having an effect, so it does do something, and not always negative, but certainly not the effect claimed above in the one pistol and one rifle which I treated with the stuff.

Any input on what's going on here would be appreciated, cuz I'm all out of ideas.

Gear

[NVScouter]

Well I'm all loaded up and have the guns in the pics treated last night and ready to go.

I did change a few things out since my 308 barrel did lead before so rebarreled my Savage with it to try it. Some mild some wild and some with PB Blocker as the boolit lube. First 8 at 1800fps and LLA, second 4 are my HPs at 1900fps and the PB Blocker as the boolit lube, then the last 5 are 2500fps with my lube and LLA.

The 303 and the 300WBY I'm just using my regular cast load of 1800fps, and 1950fps. This should be just like somebody with a decent load that picks up PB Blocker to help with leading. AKA the average purchase of PB Blocker.

The 223 I loaded to jacketed speeds. This one should be right at 2800fps from my 16" barrel. I needed to shoot for the 22 postal match so I hope these hit paper!

The 20g is getting 20 slugs to see if any wad residue is left in the bore.

The 45LC is getting 40 265g modified Keiths and 10 340g cast with my Lube. I did make 6 with PB Blocker as the lube but I want to see what is does first before loading those.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/NVScouter/Feb2011036.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/NVScouter/Feb2011035.jpg

[NVScouter]

My poor old Chrony tooks a dump this fall so all speeds are estimated. I'm also only shooting at 50 and 100 yards. I will be hoping between rifles to let them cool between strings, and with that said I'm off to the shooting pit!

[NVScouter]

Back from the range. All shooting was at 50 yards

The good:

223 T/C pistol 55g cast GC over 25g of Benchmark @ 2500fps my lube: 20 rounds 22.5" average shot group. No Leading. The group wasnt the issue and no leading was great.

303 Brittish 168g cast GC over 19g 2400 @ 1800fps lubed with LLA: 30 rounds with 2" group. Some leading and groups are bigger then average with this load.

300WBY 168g cast GC over 25g of 2400 @1900fps LLA and my lube: 50 rounds total loaded but only 32 shot. Light leading slightly better then before.

45LC pistol 265g cast moly tumbled over Lil'Gun at 1,200fps: I also treated my cylinders and they remained nice and shiny even post testing. This did help powder fouling.


The Bad:

303 Brittish: I made 3 rounds lubed with BP Blocker...none would chamber, all caught in the throat as being oversized. These are the same boolits from the same mould as my other rounds seated to the same depth in the same die.

300WBY: 18 rounds wouldnt chamber as if too tight. I used a factory 180g I had in my stock to check and that was tight too. After 5 rounds my groups started walking right. The last group was a full 2" to the left of the bullseye. I even gave the rifle a break at 20 rounds to see if it was heat.

308 Win: Major headspacing issues only allowed me to fire 12 rounds. I was having issues with chambering a round so I tried some milspec 147g jacketed bullets. Tight tight tight, after 20 rounds of that it did ease up so I could start chambering cast. Even then after 12 rounds a boolit was stuck in the chamber when it failed to chamber the round and I opened the bolt. When I got home the first thing I did was check my headspace. I found that the headspace had changed since applying PB Blocker. This is a tight match grade barrel so I'm not suprised this is the one that was the worst.

20 with slugs: I fired 3 rounds and noticed wad build-up in the barrel. Rounds 4 and 5 were fine but shot 6 felt "Wierd". I stopped pulled the barrel and found wad fouling like I have never seen after just 6 shots! I stopped testing for my own safety.

45LC: After 6 rounds i noticed leading. This load has NEVER leaded before so I shot 6 more rounds....more leading. I could start seeing the grooves fill in so I fired 5 mildly loaded jacketed rounds to help throw some lead out of the barrel. This didnt work at all and I only fired 6 more cast rounds before I decided to stop before I pushed my luck.



As you can see there is a lot of bad. I think this is mainly due to PB Blocker's instructions and lack of testing outside of straight walled Glock barrels. 54Go Chemicals/PB Blocker needs to do more testing before throwing a product like this out there for all around fire arm use.

Application Instructions " To Clean Bore: Moisten a loose fitting patch and swap liberally to a warm barrel. Let Set. Swab again to remove excess."

This is what I did no more no less. What I should have done was clean the heck out of the barrel and CHAMBER before going shooting. I'm sure at this point that I have build up in my chambers/throats from PB Blocker. SOOO much scrubbing in my future [smilie=b:

Now the 45LC and the 20GA should have worked as advertised but failed miserably. hplug will have to answer these two.


hplug:

I need to know how to get this stuff out of my guns, and if any chemical will react in a way that will make my situation worse.

I also think that your company has a long way to go in making this product work. I'm very disapointed about wasting a day and the reloading components to make some 125 rounds of ammo to come home and have to write a review like this. I understand that you are in sales so I hope you can work with your tech people to work this out.

[PatMarlin]

I found that the headspace had changed since applying PB Blocker. This is a tight match grade barrel so I'm not suprised this is the one that was the worst. I need to know how to get this stuff out of my guns, and if any chemical with react in a way that will make my situation worse.



One word.... YIKES :groner:


Hmmm I hope they have liability insurance paid up.. :shock:

[PatMarlin]

Impessive little arsenal there NV ...:drinks:

[kelbro]

Well I don't have to go touch the stove burner to see if it's hot after seeing two other guys touch it...

[NVScouter]

Impessive little arsenal there NV ...:drinks:

Thanks. I usualy dont post gun pics but I figured it helped the article.

About the headspace I've been scrubbing the 45 and the 308. I went right to Uncle Ed's bore paste and bronze brush. The bore paste is a mild abrasive and is working pretty good.

I worked the bore about 10 minutes then put on a 45 cal brush and did the chamber, then a 35 cal brush and did the throat. Guess what? GO headspace gauge works fine now! What's that tell ya..........

[PatMarlin]

Well I don't have to go touch the stove burner to see if it's hot after seeing two other guys touch it...


Some sound logic... :mrgreen:

[lwknight]

Once the barrel starts leading , the blocker is covered up so why continue the test farther?
From what I have read so far , its not miracle juice but can be very helpful in a marginal gun.
I have a Ruger SBH that leads a bit no matter what I do and I think its a good candidate for the test. Its muddy and cold and I would have to ride a tractor 1/2 mile to my shooting range spot. I think I'll just wait for dryer ground and fairer weather.

Fear not though , I will git eer done in the near future. Also I will test a Taurus .357 that is a leading booger to deal with .

[geargnasher]

So what we've all seen so far:

PB Blocker doesn't stop lead from adhering to the bore.

PB Blocker often, maybe most of the time, can make a proven load/gun combo lead or lead worse.

PB Blocker makes lead stick to the barrel, chamber neck, and leade like nothing else we've seen, making cleaning/deleading a real chore.

PB Blocker can reduce the velocity of a load all else being equal.

PB Blocker conditions a bore surface so that everything except powder fouling sticks to it even worse than bare metal.

The jury is still out on accuracy, I saw some improvement with one load and little difference with the rest since moderate to severe leading can, in some instances, ruin accuracy.

One thing I will sing it's praises over, though, is what it will do for powder fouling. Somehow, I don't know why, it really reduces it and makes what little is there much easier to clean, it wipes right out and really doesn't even need much solvent in a bore. I'm sure it would be very good for treating cylinder faces and cylinder throats/leades to prevent the hard, carbon caking that can occur at thost points.

I was really, really hoping this stuff would show some merit, but I think there is something missing from the formula that would make the bore slicker somehow, this product has just about zero lubricity, just rubbing it between you fingers it feels very "grabby", not slick at all, and I think that's why lead and wad plastic rub off and stick to it so badly.

Gear

[geargnasher]

Once the barrel starts leading , the blocker is covered up so why continue the test farther? To see if it's just one or two streaks or if I continue shooting the whole thing will lead up. It did. The other thing is, in my case, I was interested in the velocity differences between leaded and unleaded barrels, I worked the load for my 30-30 up and back down again to compare data and group size.
From what I have read so far , its not miracle juice but can be very helpful in a marginal gun. I would conclude that in the guns NV and I tested so far it is not good for preventing lead fouling, but is very good a keeping powder fouling to a minimum.
I have a Ruger SBH that leads a bit no matter what I do and I think its a good candidate for the test. Its muddy and cold and I would have to ride a tractor 1/2 mile to my shooting range spot. I think I'll just wait for dryer ground and fairer weather. Don't forget your Chore Boy!

Fear not though , I will git eer done in the near future. Also I will test a Taurus .357 that is a leading booger to deal with .

LW, if you're ever in the Kerrville area, I can give that little Taurus a cylinder throat reaming and firelapping that it will never forget, and it's attitude might impove!

Gear

[lwknight]

Gear , the bbl already slugs .359
It really let the air out of me when I slugged the bore.
I may well end up honing the cylinders to except a big enough boolit to seal the bore.
Or better yet , just trade it off to a "J" bullet shooter.

It's getting absurd how many common problems guns have from poor QC and mass production with worn tools and low budget machine operators.

[chris in va]

That's too bad. My Glock 21sf doesn't lead at all, but my CZ 75BD needs cleaning after 100 rounds.

[NVScouter]

One word.... YIKES :groner:


Hmmm I hope they have liability insurance paid up.. :shock:

I checked brass just now while getting ready for work and didnt see any over pressure signs just hard/impossible to chamber. However all of my cast loads (That I was able to fire) are low pressure boolit loads anyways......

[hplug]

Hey Guys,
Thank you for all the input. First off you have helped us discover one glitch thus far that we will need to remedy on our instructions. The bottle will need to be shaken before each application as some of the components might be settling in the bottom of the bottle. We are in the process of testing our product in this extreme cold weather to see if there are any unexpected effects.

Thanks again I am working with my technical staff to work on this issue. These are the first negative tests we have had and we will get to the bottom of this asap. We really appriciate all the feedback, as we all know this is how we all learn. We will be in touch. Thanks,
H

[hplug]

Hello All,
I did speack with Cope Reynolds and he is more than happy to speak with anyone who has any questions. He did state that the bottle does not have all of the specific insturctions and they also do not ready as well as they should, which I my fault.

The instruction read "To a clean bore" which should read more like to a freshly cleaned bore with no oils, lead, or residue of any sort. I will also post the exact directions from Mr. Reynolds which might help some of the issues. Thanks for your time,
H

[hplug]

Directions: Apply liberally to clean bore with loose fitting patch and let set. Remove excess with one patch or boresnake.


For best results: Warm barrel under a heat lamp or heat gun. The longer PB Blocker is aloud to set the better results. In the field apply to a warm barrel and let sit as long as possible for maximum effect. PB Blocker has limited effect when using swaged or very soft bullets. The number of rounds before subsequent treatment will depend upon hardness of bullets, smoothness of bore, and how fast you shoot.

[HammerMTB]

Hello All,
The instruction read "To a clean bore" which should read more like to a freshly cleaned bore with no oils, lead, or residue of any sort. I will also post the exact directions from Mr. Reynolds which might help some of the issues. Thanks for your time,
H

Well, since you brought it up, I better speak to this:
Both the bbls I tested were thoroughly cleaned before the app of PBBlocker. I then heated the bbls to a "too hot to touch barehanded" temp, I would estimate 145-160F. PBBlocker was applied generously, then waited for the bbl to cool. Then it was very gently wiped out. It was 4-5 days before testing, so there should have been plenty of time for conditioning to occur.
I may inspect the bottle to see if any visible separation has occurred.
It'd be a shame to think I spent 100 rounds of ammo on a test that was invalid because the instructions were incomplete.

[hplug]

It would be a shame. I am puzzled as we have only had good results thus far and no all of the sudden negative feedback. I am trying to see what changed, and I am not sure what it is. I talked with Cope today and he encouraged anyone with questions to feel free to call him, he also did not mind if I published his number and would like to help get to the bottom of this. His experience is vast and he is very familiar with the product. Thanks
H

Cope Reynolds
866-886-8753

[Recluse]

Hey Guys,
Thank you for all the input. First off you have helped us discover one glitch thus far that we will need to remedy on our instructions. The bottle will need to be shaken before each application as some of the components might be settling in the bottom of the bottle.

OK, that right there scares the hell out of me.

I've never needed to shake a bottle of Hoppes #9 or Shooters Choice or even Ed's Red once it was mixed up proper--no matter how long it sat.

Nothing scares me more than the chance of having a disproportionate amount of chemicals applied because the reconstitution of the liquid is impossible. Translation: I'll never know what I'm going to get from one application to the next.

That's a helluva gamble to take with some firearms that cost $1000 and upwards. In fact, I refuse to do it.

R&D is an absolute, stone-cold unforgiving you-know-what. As one who has launched hundreds upon hundreds of new products during my career in marketing, my assessment is that you have a quite a ways to go before you go public with this product.

:coffee:

[Recluse]

One more thing.

Cast Boolits and CBA are the Gold Standard when it comes to casting, loading and shooting lead projectiles. Our members are worldwide, and some are world-renown. Between us and CBA, more innovations have been made in the arena of casting bullets than anywhere else, I dare say even combined. From other-worldly lubes to customized molds to hardness testing to custom-sizing and everything in between, it's been done and often originated with our membership here.

You may find us a tough audience and a hard sell, but if you can perfect your product to the standards set here and at CBA, you will have an undisputed winning product on your hands.

:coffee:

[geargnasher]

Directions: Apply liberally to clean bore with loose fitting patch and let set. Remove excess with one patch or boresnake.


For best results: Warm barrel under a heat lamp or heat gun. The longer PB Blocker is aloud to set the better results. In the field apply to a warm barrel and let sit as long as possible for maximum effect. PB Blocker has limited effect when using swaged or very soft bullets. The number of rounds before subsequent treatment will depend upon hardness of bullets, smoothness of bore, and how fast you shoot.

We get the directions, and I believe we have followed them pretty well. The preparation and testing that we have done so far has been documented in excellent detail in this thread. Granted, it's only a few tests with a handful of guns, but we're still trying to figure out why our results, for the most part, contradict the claims of this product.

While I certainly hope this turns out to be a useful product and appreciate the opportunity to try it out free of charge, it is beginning to appear that the REAL field testing of the product is being done here, when it should have been done prior to product launch. Perhaps it isn't us who should be contacting Mr. Reynolds, he should be weighing in on this thread on your behalf since he registered here to provide some input in the first place. He can read our results so far and maybe give us some better insight into the cause of our failures.

With regard to the last two sentences of the quote above, none of us were using particularly soft boolits (mine were 13.4 bhn for all the tests with the rifle, 14.4 with the .45 ACP pistol), none of them were swaged that I noted, several of the guns tested had match-quality bores, and none of us got our barrels hot. Based on my limited testing and results, I'm most certainly not going to put this stuff in a $3,000 Shiloh Sharps or anything else until I get some better information.

Gear

[kelbro]

As far as shaking the bottle goes, it's probably the 'nano particles' in suspension that need agitation.

Breakfree CLP needs to be thoroughly shaken for each application.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I just found this thread...all I can say is WOW.
I am quite new to casting,
though I've been schooled well from this site for the last 10 months.
I'd like to add a thought I have after reading 131 posts.

This product is bonding to the metal.
it reminds me of seasoning on cast iron cookware.
that bonding needs the heat of cooking temperatures,
not just the heat of "hot to the touch" 140º to 160º.

I wonder if the bonding of this product would be served
by higher temperatures ?

OK, here is some thinking "outside of the box"
what about seasoning/bonding this product
by shooting some J-word bullets, before shooting
cast boolits.

what I'm thinking is following all the steps Gear went through
to apply it, then Shoot one j-word.
then swab with the product, then a dry mop, then shoot another J-word.
repeat 3 or 4 times.

My reasoning is this, How can just applying a cold oily liquid
to metal that is heated to 160º going to stand up to the
Heat and pressures of a standard loaded centerfire ammo.
Jon

PS: I would probably only consider doing this with a troublesome gun bore,
why fix what isn't broken on a bore that isn't having any problems

[lwknight]

Good observation and idea John. My thoughts are similar.
I really think from what I hear and not my own experience
that the pb blocker has potential for lightly troublesome barrels.
I have guns that will leave you scobbing lead out for hours and others that
will shoot all day long and clean up in 5 minutes

Maybe and what I hope for when I get to my working with it is that it will
be a seasoning compound that will eventually cure troublesome barrels with use.
Maybe just by osmosis of virtue or some other crazy words it may allow
more shooting without leading so that the barrel will break in shorter time.

A barrel that leads will be coated in just a few rounds so farther shooting does nothing
except to iron on more lead. Even slowing the lead build up down will help. At least it can't hurt. Anyway we spend more on gas than the blocker costs . So whats a few bucks for science and research?

[NVScouter]

I got a 1/2 bottle from the free sample. No idea about what portion of the chemical I got since SHAKE WELL is nowhere on the bottle. As noted in the excellent post about nanoparticles this must be needed. However as is this could cause my issues to a shooter a dozen rifle applications later so I still think my negative results stand as a potential hazard.

I couldnt agree more about the field testing being done here instead of prior to product launch. You can send me a check for services rendered if you want I bill out at $137/hour.

My aplication process:

Cleaned all guns with Hoppes9 and 7.62 bore cleaner. Followed up by multiple dry patches for very very clean bores/throats/chambers. Applied heat with a heat gun to being too hot to touch and evenly heated. Applied PB Blocker with a loose fitting patch and let sit for 3 hours. I then ran 3-4 dry patches in the bore removing a yellowish liquid. I fired the next day after sitting overnight.

hplug please tell me what chemical to use to get this out of my guns.

[Harter66]

Hplug ,
I split my bottle with NVscouter ,the mention of shaking never came up untill after our meeting and exchange. Scouter got the bottom of the bottle and I got the top basicly. So that leaves us both run a muck really. Sadly your field test has resulted in at least 11 of us shooting well over 1000 rounds in 30+ guns . Scouter and I drove,not knowing his exact location or range choice,about 250 miles. Now we have flawed instructions to blame for our woes , I think ,speaking only for me,you should've quit at "SOB that's odd did you.......?" . Pointing fingers and passing the buck don't fly with this desert rat.

With that said if scouter and I can reconect we'll ...............I'll try again .

[NVScouter]

With that said if scouter and I can reconect we'll ...............I'll try again .

You going to be on time? :bigsmyl2:

I'm going to be in Montana next week but after that sure or I can throw it in the mail if you want. I wouldnt use it again at this point.

[hplug]

I dont think I have pointed any fingers, I am not blaming anyone for any foul experiences. Something changed I dont know what. We have conducted extensive testing and never had any issues, now we do. So I ask myself what changed? I dont know I dont think anyone here did anything wrong, I dont think anyone applied the product incorrectly but again something changed. I had one local gentleman fire lead boolits thru his glock and after one treatment and a 1000 rounds still had no build up. Now all of the sudden people are shooting 5 rounds and it is so leaded they had to stop. I dont understand.

No the bottle does not say shake well which is why I said I was at fault for not including that in the label. Again I am trying to find the answer here and I am baffled.

Believe it or not I would not through an untested product on the market, we have conducted many tests before the launch.

[45nut]

Well I shall share my nickle here,, it was courageous to offer samples to the membership here.
There are limited options for someone to get real honest feedback in the realm of cast shooting, you could not have picked a more skeptical group and on the same token, more willing to try because of the success of some of our own members offerings.
There are companies that probably hate this forum for our honest feedback and the willingness and determination not to cover up the bad and ugly real world stuff that gets shipped out to us.
Many companies just don't want the truth exposed, they prefer to prey on a gullible consumer taking them at their word and if something is bad, it must be the fault of the dummy that bought the product and misused it.
Few companies have the courage to advertise here, fewer are those that can stand the heat when called out for a subpar product and prefer to crawl back to the safer domain of their own pastures.
I certainly hope this thread does some good in future offerings from the folks behind the product, we mean not to trash anyone, but pursuing the facts can be harsh at times.

[geargnasher]

Alright, the Fat Lady hasn't sung yet.

I spoke with the chemist who formulated PB Blocker today, and while his knowledge base of shooting cast boolits is limited, I did get most of the answers I was looking for about the product and how it's supposed to work. Cope Reynolds is tied up right now with a show, but he's supposed to contact me when he gets a chance so we can chat a bit about our experiences and try to figure out why we're having problems.

From my conversation with the chemist, I have a pretty good idea what the active ingredients are, and knowing how those classes of chemicals operate gives me more of a clue as to what we're doing right and what we're doing wrong. Heat really isn't necessary to apply this stuff, a warm barrel will help expand the pores of the metal a bit, but it doesn't need to be really hot during the application process. I also feel that PB Blocker would be far more effective if added to the lube itself rather than the barrel steel directly, although it will affect the characteristics of the lube somewhat, probably for the better. This is my own idea that popped into my head driving home from work tonight, I want to see what the chemist has to say. I think that PB Blocker could be substituted for the stearate in Felix lube, serving much that same purpose for the lube, plus making the lube "season" the bore faster, much in the way you treat and season a quality piece of cast iron cookware. Might be best to treat both the lube and the barrel at first. We'll see what they have to say. We all know about bore seasoning, I think there might be something go this yet, or maybe not. Time will tell.

One thing I can say for sure is that this product has in fact been wrung out much better than we thought, so our grousing about being the first guinea pigs is somewhat misplaced. Not saying it proves anything one way or another, but there are number of competent testers working on it that we didn't know about, not just us and the handfull of people who testified on the PB Blocker website.

Gear

[btroj]

And that Gear, is why it was wise for plug to come here for testing. Nowhere else was he going to find a wider range of avid practitioners of casting and shooting lead bullets. He also is up against people with high standards and strong demands on any product. There is no sugar coating going on here.
Thanks for the work you are doing Gear. You have gone above and beyond in you efforts to make this stuff work. Most would have thrown in the towel already.

We are seeing what product testing should be here. Honest and demanding. Tough on product and mind.

Thanks for the testing guys.

[Recluse]

Breakfree CLP needs to be thoroughly shaken for each application.

Which is why I do not use it.

For my firearms lube needs, I use Mobil1 15W50.

:coffee:

[geargnasher]

One other tip, none of the ingredients in Ed's Red will have the least effect on removing PB Blocker.

Gear

[Recluse]

Believe it or not I would not through an untested product on the market, we have conducted many tests before the launch.

Relax. :) No fingers are getting pointed at people, but rather product and results to date.

Again, that is part of the R&D, and testing is the most brutal, unforgiving part of the process. More products die during testing than they do on the drawing board.

During my twenty-year career, I've been involved hands-on in the testing and launching of new products ranging from new pizza recipes from Pizza Hut, "new and improved" detergent formulas from Proctor & Gamble, new automotive parts from brands that include Raybestos (brakes), DieHard (batteries), Prestone and more, ball point pens from Pilot, wines from Llano Estacado, Mondavi, Kendall Jackson and more, telecommunications services from AT&T and Sprint, and countless others.

By far, the actual field-testing of any new product or service is the most grueling part.

And for your product, you could not have come to a better place. Nobody here has any vested or financial interest in your success or failure or even your existence. That is about as level of a test market and playing field as you can get.

What's more, as Ken (45Nut) so aptly pointed out, we are honest to the core in our assessments, experiences and opinions on any and all things related to shooting lead projectiles. This has put us afoul of a few brands, but no one here lost any sleep over that.

This forum is virtually entirely self-supported financially. We have a handful of banner sponsors up top, but they are sponsors we know extremely well. One of them is Lee, and you can read anywhere on this forum many a post where Lee takes a terrible beating from a number of members.

Yet, Lee stays here because they know there is no bigger market or more authoritative market for casting and shooting lead projectiles.

Likewise, when Lee has something good--and they have a lot of very good things--the same critical members give honest and praiseworthy assessments of those (Lee) products.

We've had Dillon Precision come on here because of a few problems some members experienced. We absolutely respect Dillon and their honesty and pursuit of excellence, and they respect our absolute honesty and fairness.

That is one of the key factors that makes Cast Boolits what it is today.

If you think PB Blocker has great potential and a large market, then you're at the right place for field testing. Yes, the comments and feedback can be brutal, but again, we have no interest in being anything other than 100% honest in our assessments and opinions.

My professional advice is to take serious note of the feedback you're receiving, stay in contact with those members who have tested your product and experienced less than satisfactory results, and continue to research, adjust (formula), application technique/instructions and keep tweaking and tuning the product.

Again, you will find no better place to test your wares than here.

:coffee:

[geargnasher]

So, JD, you volunteering? :kidding:

Gear

[Recluse]

So, JD, you volunteering? :kidding:

Gear

Not me. I only have one gun that leads and that's that old Colt Gov't Model 70. NOTHING will help it, and I'm not changing a thing on it. Some Chore Boy copper scrubbing patches on a bronze brush makes lickety-split work of the lead.

Thing is, I can see some utility value to a product like PB Blocker. Lot of folks shoot commercially cast bullets and it's a carp shoot as to whether or not the bullets are the right size for their bore, if the lube is worth anything, velocities, etc.

After all, biggest complaint WE hear about cast bullets is what? They lead the barrel.

I also admire entrepreneurs and risk-takers. If Hplug has something that has great potential, I'd LOVE to see it succeed.

Which is why this place, tough audience and all, is platinum testing grounds for him and his product.

:coffee:

[HammerMTB]

Alright, the Fat Lady hasn't sung yet.

I spoke with the chemist who formulated PB Blocker today, and while his knowledge base of shooting cast boolits is limited, I did get most of the answers I was looking for about the product and how it's supposed to work. Cope Reynolds is tied up right now with a show, but he's supposed to contact me when he gets a chance so we can chat a bit about our experiences and try to figure out why we're having problems.

From my conversation with the chemist, I have a pretty good idea what the active ingredients are, and knowing how those classes of chemicals operate gives me more of a clue as to what we're doing right and what we're doing wrong. Heat really isn't necessary to apply this stuff, a warm barrel will help expand the pores of the metal a bit, but it doesn't need to be really hot during the application process. I also feel that PB Blocker would be far more effective if added to the lube itself rather than the barrel steel directly, although it will affect the characteristics of the lube somewhat, probably for the better. This is my own idea that popped into my head driving home from work tonight, I want to see what the chemist has to say. I think that PB Blocker could be substituted for the stearate in Felix lube, serving much that same purpose for the lube, plus making the lube "season" the bore faster, much in the way you treat and season a quality piece of cast iron cookware. Might be best to treat both the lube and the barrel at first. We'll see what they have to say. We all know about bore seasoning, I think there might be something go this yet, or maybe not. Time will tell.

One thing I can say for sure is that this product has in fact been wrung out much better than we thought, so our grousing about being the first guinea pigs is somewhat misplaced. Not saying it proves anything one way or another, but there are number of competent testers working on it that we didn't know about, not just us and the handful of people who testified on the PB Blocker website.

Gear

Thanks for this, Gear. I had wondered what the active ingredients were, too, but hadn't pursued it.
I have not to date formulated any of my own lube, whether from an original recipe or someone else's.
Maybe I should add that product testing is what I do for a living. I have high expectations of the engineering staff that create the test procedures. The engineers are well-trained in this. I suspect this is new ground for hplug. I will admit ot being disappointed, but I have not given up. I'll probably drag my feet a bit and see where the wind blows some of the subsequent test data, so I expend less energy and ammo looking for a result.
Would you mind sharing what's in PBBlocker, maybe in a PM, Gear? Our facility has a big lab and some really good lube experts. I'm always taking up a conversation outside my own test area.

[Harter66]

Hplug,

Is it possible that "early success" came from some solvent blend or multiple treatments of altered formulas being force blended. Like using a moly grease on a new cam shaft in an engine build and STP/Lubriplate on the crank ,straight 30wt in the bores,10-40 for lifter soak, then load the pan with 20-50. The thing about about all of the above is if you get a full qt of moly/STP in the new engine it'll slick up the cyls and burn oil for 2 or 3 oil changes. Put it in an engine that's got 30k miles on it ,I've seen milage go up cold starts free up. At 150k it'll slow oil burning and quiet lifters onstart up. Point being a clean dry bore to me might be an oil swamp to the next guy. I used brake clean ,maybe carb cleaner or isoprople alc instead ?

[NSP64]

I have been following this thread.
As I have no interest in this( not working for company or doing testing), a thought occured to me.
Maybee the differences in the company tests and the members tests come down to something as simple as lube.
What lube is the company using vs what we use.
Maybee a good lube for an untreated barrel using cast (getting little or no leading)actually can cause leading using PB blocker?
May be the chemicals used in a good lube interfeers with the PB blocker?
I dont know, just trying to field some ideas to help.

[geargnasher]

Cope Reynolds was kind enough to take a few minutes to call me this morning, and we had a good chat about PB Blocker. Neither of us can understand why the testing done here has shown such generally negative results.

We discussed lube and alloys some, he related that all of his testing was done in pistols and he used pre-lubed commercial bullets. I related my experiences and we agree that our results were exactly opposite, like we weren't even using the same product. One test that he had done, since he has used the stuff for about a year, was to put some in a clear bottle and let it sit for several months (six, IIRC), and saw zero evidence of settling. He shakes everything out of habit like I do, too, so I fail to see that settling out is our problem.

At this point I want to relate the results of some non-gun tests I did last night, but I have to get a good picture first. I told Mr. Reynolds about this test and he agreed to try it with his bottle when he gets time, maybe in a couple of weeks. More in a minute....

Gear

[geargnasher]

What I did last night is basically a crude version of the wear testing that lubricants and their additives commonly undergo to evaluate their effectiveness in various applications.

Overview. The preliminary tests I peformed with PB Blocker in firearms(refered to as PBB from here on out in this article) indicated that clean barrel steel, treated according to directions, gains an affinity for lead by the process of friction adhesion, in which the molecules of the lead boolits cold-weld to the treated bore surface. This cold-welding was evident by the relative difficulty of the subsequent removal of the adhered lead left behind in the barrels after shooting. Reverse-electroplating was required for full removal, wheras the same guns previously untreated with PBB required only the Chore Boy method of friction abrasion to remove deposits on the few occasions it was encountered during load developments.

Test construction. This test was designed to evaluate the performance of PBB in abrasion testing while being directly compared to two other common substances: Felix World Famous Lube and Lee Liquid Alox. An untreated, bare portion of the test plate was left as a control reference.

The test plate was a medium-carbon steel blade from a rotary hide fleshing machine. The blade was origianlly blued and had a few slight rust-etched spots as well as very smooth areas. The blade was polished with 000000 steel wool and completely degreased. The test area was divided into four quadrants labeled A through D, clockwise. Each quadrant was divided into three sections which would test three different alloys each: 30:1, clip-on wheel-weight alloy with 1.5% tin added to test 14.4 BHN, and an ingot of foundry-certified new linotype alloy. In each quadrant the 30:1, WW, and Lino were tested in that order, in a clockwise fashion in each quadrant.

I warmed the plate slightly so that the Felix lube, PBB, and LLA could melt an penetrate, then I allowed to cool. The excess was wiped off using cleaning patches, being careful not to cross-contaminate the samples.

The test. Having identified each quadrant, I took the corner of each ingot and rubbed vigorously over the designated test are for each 25 times, applying as much downward pressure as I could, again using a fresh corner of the ingots for each of the four test areas to prevent cross-contamination. At this point I made notes of the appearance. I then cleaned each area with a piece of paper towel soaked in Ed's Red with the intent to try to remove any lead traces left on the respective test areas. I used Ed's since this is a typical bore cleaning solvent and isn't supposed to affect PBB. The paper towels are marked and included in the pictures. Next, I used a common Chore Boy pad to attempt to remove the lead that was still adhered to certain parts of the sample, and observed the results. I only used the Chore Boy in the first inch or so of the inside radius of each test area. Finally, I used .000000 steel wool and brake cleaner to clean the entire test areas, dried the steel, and made some more observations.

The results: From the abrasion test....
Bare steel (A): Visible marks from all alloys indicating material had sloughed off and embedded in the surface, some scratches from the Lino.

Felix Lube (B): No trace of metal left behind except in a few rust pits, very slight. Marks from rubbing were slightly visible in the dull sheen of the surface, but no significant adhesion to the base metal.

PBB (C): Marks from the alloy could be compared to writing on a blackboard with chalk, very distinct grey patches where the alloy rubbed off onto the surface, completely obscuring the base metal. Very much increased friction between the alloys and the treated metal surface, and much more wear noted on the corner of the ingots compared to the three other test areas.

LLA (D): Similar observations as Felix lube, but slightly more friction between the ingots and the treated surface.

From the first cleaning with Ed's Red...

A: Lead deposits unaffected. Paper towel showed only a mild rust-colored residue.
B: Felix lube dissolved and wiped away, carrying with it all traces of the lead alloys from the pits, the resulting area was very clean, and the paper towel showed a darker brown residue with slight flecs of lead from the pits.
C: Loose surface particles of lead removed, some rust residue, otherwise the lead deposits were unaffected.
D: The LLA dissolved and carried away a few tiny specks of lead that had been trapped in some rust pits, the surface was completly clean with zero evidence of lead adhesion.

From the Chore Boy.....
A: Some lead was removed, but not much, a very slight copper wash was evident on the metal surface.
B: No lead to remove, but scrubbed it anyway, none stuck.
C: Couldn't tell if any lead was removed or not because the copper abraded and stuck on top of the lead and treated metal surface so badly that it obscured the lead and treated metal areas between the lead testing patches with a thick copper wash.
D: No copper stuck to the clean surface there, either.

From final cleaning with 000000 steel wool and brake cleaner.....
A: Most of the lead was removed, but marks where it had been were visible in the steel as shiny patches on the surface visible in reflecive light and a few scratches from the Lino were still evident in the surface.
B: Looked as the steel did before applying Felix lube, no marks anywhere.
C: Some copper wash remained stuck to the PBB-treated steel, the copper seemed to be gone from on top of the lead marks, but clear deposits of lead remained, much worse than even the untreated steel. I gave the PBB area another thorough round of cleaning, this time with 0000 steel wool and brake cleaner and was unable to remove all of the lead or copper completely.
D: No traces of lead remained from before, and the steel surface bore no evidence whatsoever of being abraded with lead. Not even any scrathes. I this test it performed as well as Felix lube except for having a higher coefficient of friction with the alloys.

Conclusions Space limits dictate another post for my conclusions.

[lwknight]

So now we know .
The Felix Lube is even better than the LLA.

Sorry , couldn't resist.

[NSP64]

We discussed lube and alloys some, he related that all of his testing was done in pistols and he used pre-lubed commercial bullets.
Gear


Obviously, our boolits aren't hard enough to use with this product.

good test gear!

[geargnasher]

Here's what I learned, in no particular order of observation:

PBB affected the test sample surface so that 30:1, WW, lino, and soft copper all rubbed off on it and stuck in a very robust manner, confirming my suspicions of what was happening in my gun barrels. This is the opposite effect advertised by the PBB company, and my results couldn't have been more contratictory to advertised claims. If you want to cold-weld lead alloys or copper to steel, PBB is the product to use, making those metals stick together at least twice as well as untreated surfaces.

LLA and Felix lube make exremely good film lubricants between lead alloys, copper, and steel.

Copper sticks to lead, but we knew that already.

Lead alloys stick to PBB-treated steel much better than to copper. That's why the Chore Boy pad didn't work very well at all at removing the base layer of lead from my gunbarrels.

Ed's Red doesn't really help removing lead if the lead is stuck to the steel, but we knew that, too. As a solvent it will wash any abraded lead away along with the lubricants.

The paper towel used to wipe the LLA section with Ed's Red after the abrasion test was much darker than the others indicating a reaction with the base metal, perhaps a slight oxidation.

Straight Linotype can and will scratch bare carbon steel, but both LLA and Felix lube prevent that, at least on a naked-eye level.

It doesn't matter what kind of lead alloy you use with PB Blocker, it all sticks like a bad habit.

Now, I offer a challenge. Those of you who have your free bottles, even those who have tested it already in their guns, get a clean, polished piece of carbon steel, put some of your favorite boolit lube on one part, treat another part with PBB as you would a gun barrel, wipe off the excess, and do a simple abrasion test with your favorite alloy. If you aren't amazed at how badly the lead rubs off on the surfaces treated with PBB, I want to know what's in your bottle that wasn't in mine. You too, Richard. If you can do this with your product and keep the lead from rubbing off and adhering, send me another sample to try, and if it works, I'll eat my hat.

Based upon these results alone I won't be putting this product anywhere NEAR any of my guns again, and the input from the developer and some of the other testers has so far shed no real light on why those of us here at Castboolits can't seem to get it to work like it's supposed to. I really didn't want to be this negative about it so soon, and did want to do further experiments with my guns, but if you have seen what I have seen with this test you likely wouldn't test it further, either.

Gear

[geargnasher]

These pics of the plate after all the testing and cleaning came out sort of cruddy as thumbs, here are the raw images. You can see the copper clearly on section C near the hole in the middle of the disk, keep in mind that this area was scrubbed with both Ed's Red and then 000000 steel wool and then 0000 steel wool to TRY to remove the copper:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29337&d=1297280552


This picture is the same orientation as the above, where quadrant A is untreated metal with 30:1 on the left, WW in the middle, and Lino on the right, same order clockwise through all the other three quadrants. Felix lube is B on the right side, PBB is C on the bottom, and LLA is D on the left. Again, the smudged on the paper towels is what was removed from each quadrant after the initial abrasion test.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29336&d=1297280518


I should have taken pictures after the initial abrasion tests because the lead deposition on quadrant C was even more dramatic before all the steel-wooling, but you folks can do it, too, and see for yourselves.

Gear

[kelbro]

So it works the exact opposite of what was expected.

Shoot, any marketing guru knows what to do next....

Sell it in Australia!

[NVScouter]

Gear...great testing I have a piece or 50 of carbon steel here to test if I have enough time before leaving for Montana! I also apreciate your time spent with PBB company and Cope.

Since hplug refuses to answer:

How do I get this snake oil out of my barrels? I have used Uncle Ed's Bore paste and Hopes #9 but havent fired it yet. Do you think this is the correct route?

[geargnasher]

NVScouter, I'm afraid I don't have the answer for you there, but until the experts weigh in I'll take a SWAG at an explanation based on the spotty info I have. This is only a mostly UN-educated guess, so nobody beat me up if it's way off!! I'm told this stuff contains chemicals classed as surfacants and and dispersants, and my understanding of the way surfacants can bond to base metal means our typical strong polar solvents won't remove it. It's impervious to Ed's Red, and if it can survive acetone and Kerosene (polar and non-polar) it's going to have to be shot out. Think of it as Teflon coating on a skillet, how would you dissolve that?

We have conflicting information on how long the stuff lasts, from the "thousands of rounds" in the advertisement to the implication that it might have worn off already in some of our short tests. Your guess is as good as mine, but in my .45 I shot and cleaned several times and it still wanted to lead a little bit, although it did get better each time I cleaned it. I used BG 109 the last couple of times I cleaned it, that chemical soup is designed to remove crankcase deposits, oil varnish, and carbon, and since engine oil contains much the same stuff as PBB in it's additive package, I was hoping it might help scrub the stuff out, but it didn't seem to speed the removal process up much, just shooting and cleaning the lead out every five shots over and over is what seems to do the trick.

Please do the abrasion tests, compare bare metal, metal coated with your favorite boolit lube (melted on and wiped off), and PBB treated metal. it won't take but a couple of minutes.

Good luck,

Gear

[hplug]

Hey Guys,
Brake cleaner should remove the Pb no problem,
H

[geargnasher]

That's it? No comment on my abrasion test?

Now what kind of brake cleaner are we talking about here, Chlorinated, Non-chlorinated, Citrus, or what?

Gear

[hplug]

Most have Xylene in it, and it will work, and we are setting up abrasion tests. We are having the staff review the tests and appreciate your efforts. We will report back to all with the results either positive or negative from our testing.

[Recluse]

What I found MOST interesting about all of this wasn't so much the PBBlocker's difficulties, but rather the effectiveness of the liquid alox. I had done some testing, albeit nowhere nearly as thorough as Gear's, with the LLA when I was experimenting with the ratios for the 45/45/10 blend and leading was never an issue (with properly sized boolits).

I would also venture a strong guess based upon my own experiences that if you had applied some 45/45/10 on that piece of steel, the results would have been the same as with the Felix lube and the LLA, except that as with the FWFL, the addition of the JPW and MS components would allow for even greater and longer durations of (alloy) friction with no leading.

The world of lubes is fascinating.

:coffee:

[geargnasher]

I use JPW to polish and rustproof all the feed tables on my woodworking equipment, especially the router tabletop with the powerfeed. I agree with your prediction of 45/45/10's performance in a similar test. The only thing I don't really like about LLA is it seems to leave a lot of ash behind in barrels.

Gear

[Hawker man]

Wow this has been enlightening.
From the first time I saw PB BLOCKER in the Dillon Blue Press I thought, Yea Right, no way this has got to be a gimmick. Shoot more clean less, I don't think so.
Thanks to all who have volunteered their time and guns to prove this product in-effective at best and harmful at worst.
It appears as though PB Blocker is like moon shine, it is made to sell not drink.

Tom

[HammerMTB]

It appears as though PB Blocker is like moon shine, it is made to sell not drink.

Tom

Careful now, there's some pretty good 'shine made out there with a lot of loving care. An opinion like above won't get ya an invite, tho....
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w15/HammerMTB/_moonshine.jpg

[geargnasher]

Sure is quiet in New Mexico this morning.

Why is it that I'm the first one to think of doing abrasion-adhesion testing with this product? I would think that controlled-force lab testing would have been one of the first things to have been tried before it was ever tried in a firearm. Often, things that work well in another industry don't work well at all in guns, even things that SHOULD work a certain way in guns often don't, just ask anyone who's tested their own ideas about "better" boolit lube!

I'm also surprised that I wasn't told right off that the abrasion testing is not really valid and that it doesn't transpose directly to the application of the product in guns. It may not, but it does show something I don't like. Heck, even a faint film of straight baby oil will keep most lead from sticking to the plate for about ten rubs!

Anyway, we look forward to the PBB lab abrasion test results.

Has everyone else given up? There are ten other CB testers out there, we've only heard from three or four, what are the rest of you doing? These abrasion tests don't require going outdoors in the cold. I'm sure that Hplug would be interested in data from more of us than just me, and I sure am interested to see if it's just my sample that had problems.

Gear

[BerdanIII]

Gear,

They may figure you covered it pretty well with your test and are waiting on the "official" results from the maker. I was amazed at how the tightly the lead was bonded to the steel using only puny (relatively speaking and no reflection on your physique) human strength. No wonder there's a problem at 20,000 or more psi.

[Wayne Smith]

Gear, I've been following this thread from the beginning. You assiduously avoided cross contamination, but it strikes me that cross contanimation is exactly what we get in gun bores. The bore is coated with PBBlocker and the boolit is lubed. I understand testing pure but I think it needs to be tested in combination as well.

[HammerMTB]

Has everyone else given up? There are ten other CB testers out there, we've only heard from three or four, what are the rest of you doing?

Gear

No, I haven't given up. I am going to wait and see what becomes of this thread and some of the other testing. I am satisfied that my testing was valid, confirmed by another source and test, and that there may have been some oversight in the development of the product. I get paid to develop products, but I ain't getting paid for this one!
I'm beginning to wonder if the product attempts to solve a problem better solved in other ways. In the end, I just want my guns not to lead up. If I can swab 'em with something and get there, fine.
If I haveta use older, more conventional methods, I will.
As of right now, I'm none too sure where the next test should go....
I do have a few ideas I can try on my own guns. Those'll have to proceed at my pace. I only have 2 speeds- them that don't like this speed sure won't like the other one! :mrgreen:
Thanks for all your work on the project, Gear. It has been very enlightening...

[geargnasher]

Gear, I've been following this thread from the beginning. You assiduously avoided cross contamination, but it strikes me that cross contanimation is exactly what we get in gun bores. The bore is coated with PBBlocker and the boolit is lubed. I understand testing pure but I think it needs to be tested in combination as well.

I both agree and disagree with your observations with regard to my last test. While I agree fully that cross-contamination occurs on the very first shot and the tests should have included it, I was attempting to test the merits of this product on it's own, in the way it's advertised as a non-stick surface treatment. I've talked to the chemist behind this product twice on the phone and my understanding is this is a stand-alone product. He's also not nearly as familiar with the properities of lube and shooting cast boolits in general as the average member here, so perhaps he discounts the importance of lube.

Recall that in some of my shooting tests I swabbed the bore with Bullplate after treatment. This is something I almost always do after stripping a bore to give the dry nose of the first boolit a fighting chance at making it out the muzzle without leaving any silver skidmarks behind. I also did the Bullplate trick before some of my PBB tests because, after all, this stuff is supposed to keep oils from sticking to steel also, and I thought it might augment the properties of PBB some. I actually think it DID augment them, keeping it from failing as badly as it could have in some cases.

I read that 54Go products, from where PBB was derived, developed their product to keep petroleum oils from adhering to and building up on the walls of metal pipes. PBB DOES have a remarkable effect on keeping powder residue from sticking hard to metal, and in that capacity is very effective on keeping bores clean. However, PBB is supposed to prevent the adhesion of lead, copper, and plastic wad fouling to gunbarrels. Period. It is taunted in the brochure as making lead deposits clean right out easily if and when they did occur after treatment. It didn't say "if used with Lubricant X", or "if bore is oiled after treatment and before shooting", it said "The unique coating abilities of PbBlocker virtually eliminate the extensive cleaning process". I got leading from the very first shot with certain guns and loads, and if I have to smear the nose of the first boolit with boolit lube to keep the bore from leading therafter, why the heck do I need this product?

And the wad fouling NVScouter encountered tells a lot, too:
20 with slugs: I fired 3 rounds and noticed wad build-up in the barrel. Rounds 4 and 5 were fine but shot 6 felt "Wierd". I stopped pulled the barrel and found wad fouling like I have never seen after just 6 shots! I stopped testing for my own safety. This stuff is specifically advertised to reduce wad fouling in shotguns, and shotguns have zero lube other than the natural lubricity of the wads themselves, so nobody can explain those results, either, but it certainly wasn't due to not using the right kind of boolit lube.

Bottom line is that if this product is so marginal that it needs help from film lubricants to work at all, then it's worthless as far as I'm concerned except for maybe external surface treatment like cylinder faces and all around the inside of the cylinder frame and barrel where escaping gases always leave a hard fouling, and maybe right in the tapered area of cylinder throats where the powder rings commonly form, but nowhere it will contact moving lead or copper.

Gear

[.30/30 Guy]

I have not given up on testing. I am looking for some days where the temperature gets up into the upper 20's.

I am wondering if preventing powder fouling is part of the problem. The powder fouling may be reduce lead to steel contact. Powder fouling may be our friend not our enemy.

[Harter66]

I cured any fouling I might have had other than nominal powder fouling in my shot guns when I started loading steel . Dry grafite film lube was the ticket ,heck I even had camoed m500 with powder coating in the bore that was smooth and shiny after a couple of "hot weekends",untill I hit it with a little Hoppes and a mop.

I gave and example and queried as to having "killed" the product with brake clean or if it should have been actived or swabed with something.

[PatMarlin]

I'm going to interject a "word of caution" on heating barrels beyond warm to the touch and not being able to hold- I believe it's definite treading and approaching dangerous waters. No way I would do it with mine.

[HammerMTB]

I'm going to interject a "word of caution" on heating barrels beyond warm to the touch and not being able to hold- I believe it's definite treading and approaching dangerous waters. No way I would do it with mine.

You're right- if you heat steel 'til it turns colors, you've gone too far.
However, I have heated many a piece of finely machined steel, of all sorts and sizes, to temps way beyond warm to the touch, then subjected them to many tons of force, sometimes even on very small areas. Nary a one has failed. But everybody has to operate within their own field of experience, so if'n one can't keep it under 450F, maybe better leave it to someone who can... [smilie=s:

[PatMarlin]

If you can't hold it for an extended period you've started to go to far. Permanent barrel accuracy damage can happen way sooner then when it turns colors.

To each his own. This is my opinion, and I'm no expert but there's others that share it.

[lwknight]

A piece of steel can lay in the sun and get hot enough that you cannot hold it in your hand. What we percieve as hot is not what steel would percieve as hot.
Conversly , beware that you can anneal a file at 450 drgrees so a gun barrel would be at risk of ruin as well.
I just saying that I cant see where 140 degrees can't do anything to any kind of steel and you certainly would not lay your hand solidly on 150 degrees more than a couple seconds.

[HammerMTB]

A piece of steel can lay in the sun and get hot enough that you cannot hold it in your hand. What we perceive as hot is not what steel would perceive as hot.
Conversely , beware that you can anneal a file at 450 degrees so a gun barrel would be at risk of ruin as well.
I just saying that I cant see where 140 degrees can't do anything to any kind of steel and you certainly would not lay your hand solidly on 150 degrees more than a couple seconds.

Thank you for that. It was precisely my point. You can shoot a gun rapid fire and get the bbl well beyond 140-150F. It's not in any danger then or after that.
And how many share the opinion is irrelevant. A majority elected Barack Obama, and that was among the worst decisions of all time.


Enough said on the subject

Now there's something we can agree on....

[PatMarlin]

Tried to find a great test article on the subject this morning, but after reading your comparison comment, I thought why bother? Enough said on the subject from me- proceed.

[swheeler]

I'm going to interject a "word of caution" on heating barrels beyond warm to the touch and not being able to hold- I believe it's definite treading and approaching dangerous waters. No way I would do it with mine.
GunKote, a bake on firearm finish, is oven cured at 300*F for one hour, hot caustic bluing runs just under 300*F, accelerated rust bluing involves boiling water bath which heats the barrel to approximately 212*F. So I am not worried about warming a barrel to 140*F!

"A majority elected Barack Obama, and that was among the worst decisions of all time." Now there is something I agree with, and worry about too!

[PatMarlin]

GunKote, a bake on firearm finish, is oven cured at 300*F for one hour, hot caustic bluing runs just under 300*F, accelerated rust bluing involves boiling water bath which heats the barrel to approximately 212*F. So I am not worried about warming a barrel to 140*F!

"A majority elected Barack Obama, and that was among the worst decisions of all time." Now there is something I agree with, and worry about too!

I'll add one more note, but I don't care to get into it with anyone on this subject- to each his own... experiment all you want.

I will not take one of my expensive, accurate shooting firearms and bake it, blue it, or shoot it to the point the molecules can have a party, change and re-arrange and risk changing the good performance it has enjoyed.

I think there is a difference in starting with a rifle that has been blued or baked, then machined and tuned for accuracy, but to do it after the fact in hopes to improve accuracy no. If it's a pile, then what have you got to loose? Go for it.

[PatMarlin]

Hey- for once I would just like to be right on something Ok? ...:mrgreen:

[HammerMTB]

I'm going to interject a "word of caution" on heating barrels beyond warm to the touch and not being able to hold- I believe it's definite treading and approaching dangerous waters. No way I would do it with mine.

We started out talking about "dangerous waters"
I think most would think of "danger" as something that chanced one's personal safety or the safety of equipment.
If lotsa folk disagree on what "danger" means, please chime in with your definition.


If you can't hold it for an extended period you've started to go to far. Permanent barrel accuracy damage can happen way sooner then when it turns colors.

To each his own. This is my opinion, and I'm no expert but there's others that share it.

Then there seemed to be a transition to questions about accuracy, not "danger"
I would not for a moment dispute that accuracy will degrade long before a metal color change due to heating. However, that really was not what was in question.
What benchresters fear losing their bbl that shoots "aughts" has little bearing on my combat accurate Glock. It doesn't shoot aughts, and never will. It also won't suffer from warming to 160F. It'd no doubt go quite a bit more, but there was no reason to do so.
But Pat, if you're ready to make it worth my while, I'm willing to prove that Glock bbl will not suffer at 250F.
You owe me a barrel when we're done. Seem like a good way to show me what you're talking about? If I'm wrong, I lose the bbl.
I'm in

Hey- you make some really great checkmakers- you are entirely right about that! And I can only add my congratulations on it! :-D

[PatMarlin]

"Dangerous" was simply a poor choice word for describing my opinion. I consider screwing up one of my rifles dangerous in relation to my pocket book, not to mention years of self **** kicking...:mrgreen:

And no- I don't need to prove my point. If you don't agree with anything I post here at CB, roll your eyes and mentally kick it aside... :mrgreen:

PB Block it ...:mrgreen:

[PatMarlin]

I mainly respond and post here on Cast Boolits to get my post count up anyway... :mrgreen:

[HammerMTB]

PB Block it ...:mrgreen:

Now that there's funny I don't care who ya are! :drinks: Cheers Pat

[geargnasher]

Hey Pat, the best marital advice I ever got from anyone was this: You can be RIGHT, or you can be HAPPY, which one do you prefer? Yeah, I know, I don't follow it either, being right feels so darn good!

BTW, my guns sometimes get hotter than 140 degrees during shooting or sitting in the truck, but I don't let my "good" guns suffer that, mainly on account of the wood, not the steel.

Gear

[PatMarlin]

I'm right all the time Gear, just ask my wife ..:shock:

It would be a neat thing if this PB- blocker ultimately works well.

[geargnasher]

How about an update on YOUR testing, Hplug?

Gear

[hplug]

Hey Gear,
Been swamped here out of town and now the chemist is out of town. We will be getting on with our testing next week and will let you know asap. Thanks,
H

[NVScouter]

Just got back froma wonderful week in Montana but here is what happened the weekend I left.

A friend and I went coyote hunting and I had scrubbed the 308 like nobody's business and tested headspace and it was a go. Loaded the first round and on our third set a nice 35lbs coyote ran in and I put a 110g Sierra Varminter right behind his shoulder and he went down. I didnt break his shoulder but blew his side out.

Thats when the trouble started. It took me quite the prying to load another round, I got lucky and he only ran off about 25y and figured out he was dead. So guess what I found? PbBlocker in the locking lugs with some long grain powder petrified there like old wood glue.

That blew the rest of the trip for me shooting, and I've had CLP sitting in the lugs all week. I have some break cleaner but since that can eat plastics loos like a careful job is ahead of me.

[Harter66]

I'm pretty sure that is not part of the plan.

You know its been some time and more than 1 of us ,as I read it,have asked about chemical interaction under pressure . Could be the case in your rifle.....................yes I know devils advocate.

Sooooo, how about it hplug, chemical interaction issues ? Just weird things happening at 20,000-50,000 psi?

[geargnasher]

That reminds me, I found several split cases in the lot of pickups from my .45 ACP testing, these were twice-fired and lot-sorted cases, and honestly I've never split a case in that caliber before, even after a dozen or more reloads. I'm sure there was some PBB in the chamber, after all the patch went through the whole thing. I swabbed it dry, but the stuff was still in there. I'll bet the case grabbed the chamber walls unevenly and was forced to over-stretch on one side, causing the splits.

My copper adhesion tests showed pretty high coefficients of friction between PBB-treated steel and copper, cartridge brass is 70% copper, right?

The possible implications of case head separation from full-length sized cases or from chambers with slight headspace issues (like many old military bolt guns) beg some testing before this product gets spread around any more.

The stuck bolt lugs are just scary to me.

Gear

[Recluse]

I found several split cases in the lot of pickups from my .45 ACP testing, these were twice-fired and lot-sorted cases, and honestly I've never split a case in that caliber before, even after a dozen or more reloads.

I've NEVER had a .45ACP case split on me. Ever. Not with any reloads, and like you, I have some cases that have been resized and reloaded more than two dozen times. Even many years ago in my LE days when we were testing some new ammo from Federal that was pushing the limits of pressure for the .45ACP, we never saw any case splits.

That's kind of disturbing.


The possible implications of case head separation from full-length sized cases or from chambers with slight headspace issues (like many old military bolt guns) beg some testing before this product gets spread around any more.

The stuck bolt lugs are just scary to me.

Gear

The case head separation possibilities bother me, especially for something using rimmed brass like .303.

Stuck bolt lugs are scary to me. They're hair-raising downright the stuff nightmares are made of.

:coffee:

[geargnasher]

Here's the one I saved, the rest got mashed for recycling. IIRC there were five or six others out of the same box of 50. These were from the first round of tests through the treated barrel.

Gear

[btroj]

Even if it does cut down on leading I am not willing to trade that for much shorter case life. Cleaning a little lead does not cost me money, brass does!

[PatMarlin]

Here's the one I saved, the rest got mashed for recycling. IIRC there were five or six others out of the same box of 50. These were from the first round of tests through the treated barrel.

Gear

.... :holysheep .....:shock: :shock: :shock:

I would venture to say there are much safer ways to stop leading. Even a PB gas check in auto loaders is worth a try and I'm not trying to plug my products, just saying that photo is a dangerous example and result by any measure.

I hate to say it, but instead of a product promotion, fair tests here have shown a "Product Warning" may very well be in order.

[pls1911]

Been following this thread from the start, and must acknowledge the work, and experienced observations posted.... thanks folks!
Sounds like the bottom line is that the product has merit for its intrended use, but care must be given to the application and the possibility of product migration from the bore to places it shouldn't be.
I guess i don't load hot enough, though I'm at normal factory level, but I simpley don't get leaded barrels. While I've gravitated to mostly .30-30 and 45-70 loads along with .38 and larger pistol rounds, I have never, ever had a leading issue... Smiths, Taurus, Ruger, Marlin, Winchester, TC, Savage, Pedersoli (even the 34" barrels) and probably of few oddballs and Derringers over the years have always been given a good gentle cleaning (NOT a "scrub 'till you hurt and flush with brake cleaner...) , followed by a quality oiling before being put away.
In the last few years that simply meant cleaning well with Ed's Red w/ lanolin, slipping into the sock then into the safe.....
Next time I pull it out and shoot it... if the first round is a flyer it's not enough to miss a pig...
and follow up shots seem to hit where they'r pointed.
Heat treated, gas checked, and double lubed bullets may be the key, but I've not experimented to try to get leading.

[geargnasher]

So far, there isn't a bottom line. I would disagree that it has merit for its intended use, so far it has shown very little here except that it greatly retards powder fouling in some tests. It has also shown that there are potentially some extremely dangerous issues associated with using it, in fact I'm reconsidering even using it on cylinder throats or revolver chamber leades at this point since any migration could cause issues.

As more tests from other members (hopefully) and from the purveyor of this stuff come to light there may be something good to it, but it would have to be reformulated or used in a way I have not yet to be anything this side of dangerous.

Gear

[Harter66]

I went back out having tweeked my 9mm load back to the minimum lead "wet wool,wet patch,dry patch,put it away"..4.5 Unique,356-124 TL TC,Darr's lube ,in the same High Power clone. 14 rounds(1 mag) half the grooves were filled. I did have a failure to battery ,2 failures to eject . This load has run 100% for the last 4-500 rounds.

[geargnasher]

You mean you treated it with PBB and then had all those issues? Do you think you got some in the chamber, causing sticky extraction? I'm trying to figure out what's going on with the issues NVScouter and I had, sounds like your issues might be similar. Was it easier to clean the lead out after treatment?

Gear

[troy_mclure]

id like to get ahold of some just to treat the top strap and cylinder front of my revolvers.

[Harter66]

Gear
This was continuence of my testing . I didn't get to clean up until this morning. The clean up took about the same clean up for the bulk of the fouling the land shoulders are again loaded and giving me fits again. I've considered dropping the bbl in the can of old school carburator dip cleaner. ......... might be too much , but I'll bet the PBB would be gone.

Hplug about the chemical interaction??

[HammerMTB]

Follow-up to my earlier testing:
I cleaned my bbls, and I mean put some effort into them. I did not want any PB Blocker in there anymore. So I scrubbed with brass brush & cleaner(s). Then I Lewis Lead Removed. Then I scrubbed some more. Then I used lots of brake-clean on them. Then I used some JB bore scrub. Then I flushed with brake clean again. It looked really sparkly in there, so called that good.
I also loaded some slightly different loads for the gun, as it was leading before.
Since PB Blocker didn't fix that, I needed to.
I loaded 25 rounds of 175TC's lubed with Javelina lube, otherwise my standard .40S&W load.
Also 25 rounds of 175TCs lubed twice with LLA. I usually only lube once with LLA, sizing dry.
I tried the Javelina lubed boolits first, as I thought they would be least likely to lead. After 25 rounds, no lead visible to the naked eye.
So I shot 5 condomed bullets thru it, to chase out any lead that might be there but not easy to see.
Followed that with the double-lubed LLA boolits. No leading from them either.
So the original problem may have been that there was insufficient lube on the boolits that leaded.
I say maybe because I need to follow one more possible reason. It is that the boolits have been loaded a while. What if they are being slowly sized smaller over time? I am going to follow up on that possibility.
If I can keep the bbl(s) from leading by lubing twice with LLA, that is an acceptable solution.

[geargnasher]

Hammer, it sounds like you made the last tweak and got it straightened out. How did the LLA loads compare to the Javelina loads accuracy-wise?

I doubt your boolits are getting smaller due to the constant tension of the brass, at least not a measurable amount, unless you're using a "dead" alloy like pure lead or lead-tin binary.

You said it pretty well when you pointed out that it was up to you and your skills to fix the leading problem, rather than just slap a band-aid on it, at least that's my take on things. If I have a leading problem in a gun that I'm really not asking too much from I roll out the "tool box" and get busy picking the problem apart until I fix it. I was hoping that PB Blocker would be one more tool in that box, but so far it has had the opposite effect.

Gear

[HammerMTB]

Hammer, it sounds like you made the last tweak and got it straightened out. How did the LLA loads compare to the Javelina loads accuracy-wise?


I doubt your boolits are getting smaller due to the constant tension of the brass, at least not a measurable amount, unless you're using a "dead" alloy like pure lead or lead-tin binary.

Gear

There was no discernible difference in accuracy between the Javelina and LLA loads. There was about 20 FPS difference favoring the LLA. 20 FPS isn't much, and with a 25 shot trial (less a few the chrono didn't catch) I didn't think it worth mention, but it did at least catch my attention, and I may devise some larger sample and system to really check if it's true.

The boolits are straight WW, and BHN is 11-13 depending on the lot.

In the end, I load a lot of these .40 loads for the comp season. The LLA is a significant advantage in time spent prepping stuff. There would need to be an overwhelming reason not to use LLA in this case, and I don't see that happening. I could make a small adjustment to the load, as it is designed to just make major PF, but I don't like to load too near the edge.
For me, for now, the case is closed on PB Blocker. I will remain open to new information, and if it is shown to be of value for a reason I need, great.
It's been an interesting test so far, and when/if more results come in, I'll be following along.... :bigsmyl2:

[geargnasher]

I, for one, certainly appreciate your valuble input and time spent testing this stuff.

Gear

[geargnasher]

Hey Gear,
Been swamped here out of town and now the chemist is out of town. We will be getting on with our testing next week and will let you know asap. Thanks,
H

How's the testing going?

I found a new use for this stuff: A friction enhancer for the decapping rod in Lee dies, makes it grab the jamb nut better with less pressure.

Gear

[thx997303]

That use right there convinces me to buy this product gear.

[geargnasher]

J, if you come by this Summer I'll give you a lifetime supply!

Gear

[cbrick]

Followed this thread with some interest, just re-read the whole thing. Been over a month and no word from hplug, he probably won't be sponsoring a spot on the top of these pages.

I've never been a fan of anything that is supposed to coat a bore and especially soak into the pores. I never jumped on the moly bandwagon when that was the latest rage several years go for this very reason.

Thanks for your work and input Gear. Hope your guns come back around.

Rick

[HammerMTB]

I've thought of this thread a few times wondering if hplug might come up with some answers or a different formula. I feel bad for him as I have known the pain of starting what I thought was a great idea only to find it did not work out as expected. It is disappointing, to say the least.
Guess I can try PBBlocker on my decapping stems that don't like to stay put. The .223 one on crimped primers needs help! [smilie=l:
Good idea, Gear

[thx997303]

J, if you come by this Summer I'll give you a lifetime supply!

Gear

Then that's what I'll do.

The darn 9mm stem keeps sliding up on me, I swear I used a cheater bar to get that thing to stay put, and it still moves.

Darn crimped 9mm.
:smile:

[kelbro]

Resurrecting this informative thread for a question.

I tossed my sample bottle after the initial reports posted here.

I was at Dillon Precision yesterday and they can not keep this stuff in stock. They say that the people that have tried it call and order more right away. I am assuming that they must be using it on jacketed bullets but Dillon sells a lot of factory cast bullets.

Are we missing something?

[Harter66]

I doubt it , many of us ran it "through the mill" . I still get a little lead sticking in my HP-9, its been scoured 2-3 times since my failure. I think that gear probably gave the stuff by far the most thorough test and most chances to succeed ,he arrived where the rest of us did, in the man cave with brushes,wool,chemicals and clover.

Maybe it works better w/o stp/bees wax/lanoline/moly/parifin/vasoline and so on.

HPlug never did answer about solvent ineractions possibly being part of our issues. Like changing oil brands in your car and getting gobbs of floating carbon. Heck I alternate solvents in my bbls for that reason.

[cbrick]

Resurrecting this informative thread for a question.

I tossed my sample bottle after the initial reports posted here.

I was at Dillon Precision yesterday and they can not keep this stuff in stock. They say that the people that have tried it call and order more right away. I am assuming that they must be using it on jacketed bullets but Dillon sells a lot of factory cast bullets. Are we missing something?

Order some more, let us know how it goes.

Rick

[kelbro]

Order some more, let us know how it goes.

Rick

I'm not ordering any of the stuff. After reading the experiences here I tossed the bottle they sent me (free) to evaluate. There are a lot of Glock fans in this area but I don't own one or envision ever owning one. Just not my idea of a handgun :)

[HammerMTB]

Resurrecting this informative thread for a question.

I tossed my sample bottle after the initial reports posted here.

I was at Dillon Precision yesterday and they can not keep this stuff in stock. They say that the people that have tried it call and order more right away. I am assuming that they must be using it on jacketed bullets but Dillon sells a lot of factory cast bullets.

Are we missing something?

I just had this thread and PBblocker on my mind the other day. Wondered if any more had come of the thread.
I kept my bottle in case someone found some miraculous use for the stuff.
As far as Dillon selling the stuff to out of stock, I guess ti proves the PT Barnum saying.
The bottle I have may well be a lifetime supply, since it's not getting low at all. :violin:

[Harter66]

I've oonly got a half bottle,I split mine and I think it'll go life time!

[geargnasher]

The stuff does have a use, and for such will last 100 reloaders several lifetimes: Treat Lee decapping stems with it, they will require half the force of the jam nut to remain secure.

As for putting it in a gunbarrel, and Dillon Precision flinging it out the door, all I can say is because it sells means NOTHING. How much Frankford Arsenal Mould Release spray does MidwayUSA sell every week?

The PT Barnum comment above is spot-on.

I'm going to ask everyone if they think this is about dead so I can delete the pics. I need the space in my attachment folder so I can post on more relevant topics.

Gear

[Harter66]

Its good by me your descriptions are totally clear.

[geargnasher]

I'll leave it up for a few more days and pull 'em.

Thanks guys.

Ger